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  • Originally posted by Rando View Post
    Re Biden's executive orders (or whatever the official term is) I think from a health standpoint there is no doubt it's a positive. The more people that are vaccinated the better. We aren't just protecting the unvaccinated, we're protecting our hospital system, colleagues and co-workers from being overwhelmed.

    I'm not comfortable with the action itself though. The increased use of executive orders over the past four presidents is a dangerous trend. Any powers granted to this president will be used by future presidents whether they are competent or not. Up until now it's been commonly accepted that the federal government doesn't hold much power over public health, rather it's been delegated to states and municipalities..

    And of course it's being viewed as a partisan action. While we may look at it as a purely health-related move, in social media it's commonly viewed as a win by one party over the other.
    I agree. I like getting more people vaccinated but I don't like it being mandated. And I especially don't like for it being an EO. If private businesses want to make that call then I'm ok with that.

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    • Originally posted by CBCwDiffpls View Post
      So cal hospitalist here (Los Angeles area, and occasionally a small hospital in the Inland empire.) Covid census is down a decent amount. On my last 2 weeks, all were unvaccinated except for one - elderly cancer patient who received his last cycle of chemo/rad a couple months ago. Most of the patients were overweight but fairy youngish (30-50s).

      pretty much seems to follow what we know, and to me at least it offers very reassuring evidence for the vaccine.

      my peds colleagues say they getting hit “hard” but I don’t know what that entails.
      One health issue that has been known for at least 60 years, obesity. The toll this takes on our society is huge from just about any point of view. Yet, there is no overwhelming support for attacking this problem in virtually vested interest.

      https://www.businessinsider.com/navy...reveals-2019-9

      https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

      If our society attacked obesity, would it be effective in fighting the pandemic (not to mention the other benefits). ?

      Not intended to suggest social or political change. Merely an example that care is taken to selectively choose “issues” to regulate.

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      • That's funny. Where have you been living? We've been attacking obesity since I was a child which is an unfortunately long time ago. What we don't have is interventions that work.

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        • Originally posted by Shant View Post
          That's funny. Where have you been living? We've been attacking obesity since I was a child which is an unfortunately long time ago. What we don't have is interventions that work.
          You are funny! You call that an "attack"? Was it a protest, insurrection, any policies, any movements to put in CDC regulations?
          Who is "we"? Lip service. It is actually "impolite and rude" to even fat-shame let alone put in any effective programs.
          We do have interventions, it is call consume less than you burn. It works.

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          • Originally posted by Shant View Post
            That's funny. Where have you been living? We've been attacking obesity since I was a child which is an unfortunately long time ago. What we don't have is interventions that work.
            I don't think we're necessarily attacking obesity these days. There sure are a lot of "Big is Beautiful" campaigns out there. I don't see many "Big is Generally Unhealthy" campaigns.

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            • Originally posted by StarTrekDoc View Post

              as it does really take two to dance....otherwise unless you're John Travolta, dancing by yourself makes one look like a bit of a fool.
              Oh my, that made me watch the SNF video with its bell bottom jeans, combed back hair and gritty NYC . Brought back memories. Pity that only one Bee Gee is still alive.
              Last edited by Kamban; 09-10-2021, 11:46 AM.

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              • Because we discovered that the direct attack had the opposite to the intended effect. Anyway this is far off topic but I have been inundated with weight-based messaging and public health programs my entire life so I do wonder how you were not.

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                • Originally posted by Kamban View Post

                  Oh my, that made me watch the SNF video with its bell bottom jeans, combed back hair and gritty NYC . Brought back memories. Pity that one one Bee Gee is still alive.
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0lm58cet1g Saturday Night Fever

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbeFSYP2qsg Disco Demolition Night Comisky Park

                  Trends come and go.

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                  • Originally posted by Tim View Post

                    One health issue that has been known for at least 60 years, obesity. The toll this takes on our society is huge from just about any point of view. Yet, there is no overwhelming support for attacking this problem in virtually vested interest.

                    https://www.businessinsider.com/navy...reveals-2019-9

                    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

                    If our society attacked obesity, would it be effective in fighting the pandemic (not to mention the other benefits). ?

                    Not intended to suggest social or political change. Merely an example that care is taken to selectively choose “issues” to regulate.
                    Obesity is not infectious. Although if the govt is still subsidizing corn syrup production, I agree with the hypocrisy and it should start taking real steps to slow obesity.

                    Vaccines have been mandated by states at least since the Supreme Court ruled that Massachusetts can mandate the smallpox vaccine in mass v. Jacobson in 1905.

                    The federal govt is more limited in its powers but can mandate the vaccine for military, federal workers, make rules regarding interstate travel, and put pressure on states.

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                    • Originally posted by Dusn View Post

                      Obesity is not infectious. Although if the govt is still subsidizing corn syrup production, I agree with the hypocrisy and it should start taking real steps to slow obesity.
                      The talk around individual rights typically center around how the unvaccinated affect other people by possibly infecting them. What about obese people causing rising health care costs for other people?

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                      • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                        The talk around individual rights typically center around how the unvaccinated affect other people by possibly infecting them. What about obese people causing rising health care costs for other people?
                        This could be addressed if there’s an insurance surcharge similar to smoking. We should do the same for vaccines.

                        the reason it doesn’t happen with fat people is because there’s so many of them, and pissing them off is not a good way to get re-elected.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lithium View Post

                          This could be addressed if there’s an insurance surcharge similar to smoking. We should do the same for vaccines.
                          I agree. Insurance companies can choose to do that if they wish instead of a blanket government mandate.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Shant View Post
                            Because we discovered that the direct attack had the opposite to the intended effect. Anyway this is far off topic but I have been inundated with weight-based messaging and public health programs my entire life so I do wonder how you were not.
                            Nutri-system and Weight Watchers seem to be the most prevalent besides the spam weightloss pills. It is related to the politicizing the vaccines and attempting to "regulate" those not vaccinated.
                            Private employers using OSHA. First they have to write the regulations. The USPS is a private entity and suggests that it needs to be bargained.The teachers unions will have a say also. How long will this take? Then let's consider OSHA enforcement. The complaint process is lengthy and laborious and then the question is the penalties.
                            OSHA has to do a field review and compliance audit and then the enforcement process. Take a look at how long the OSHA process takes for true safety violations.
                            This will bear fruit in about 5 years, if ever. The point is that the announcement was a sound bite. All bark and no bite. Political messaging that will not deal effectively with Delta or vaccines. Messaging intended as an "accomplishment". I have no doubt some pieces are legal, but not all. And it polarized the vaccine goal even farther.

                            CDC says 75.3% of the adult population has at least one vaccine shot. That ignores natural immunity for those that have recovered. Just at what point is herd immunity?
                            A huge waste of time to "message" that the government is doing something.

                            I personally support vaccinations and have worked hard to get "hesitant" people I know to vaccinate. The messaging is ineffective. That is on topic. We need to get the population vaccinated. This pushed vaccines farther away rather than helpful. Now the damage will need to be undone.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                              I agree. Insurance companies can choose to do that if they wish instead of a blanket government mandate.
                              The smoking surcharge is actually imposed by the ACA. That’s technically private insurance but the government dictates the terms and it’s the only option for a lot of people. I assume most smokers lie on their applications rather than pay thousands of dollars in extra premiums per year. But it’s also more politically palatable to punish smokers, who I think are easier to stigmatize than obese people for a litany of reasons.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                                I don't think we're necessarily attacking obesity these days. There sure are a lot of "Big is Beautiful" campaigns out there. I don't see many "Big is Generally Unhealthy" campaigns.
                                We're gonna eat our way out brother, dont you worry.

                                Comment

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