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  • Originally posted by AR View Post

    I don't want to sound like a ivermectin fan, because I'm not.
    Originally posted by AR View Post
    Once again, I'm not a supporter of ivermectin use in COVID.
    Originally posted by AR View Post
    To reiterate, I don't support the use of ivermectin in COVID.
    I honestly don't know why you're such a huge fan of ivermectin...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by FIREshrink View Post

      So data is correct... I made this point months ago, it's not political. In a large national survey at the time, no single demographic factor was more closely associated with vaccine acceptance/refusal than political affiliation. Put another way, being a self identified Republican was the single greatest risk factor for the ideology of vaccine refusal. I think we also know that Republicans are more likely to support the ideology of mask refusal. Seems highly relevant to me, like knowing that smoking and radon and asbestos exposure are the greatest risk factors for lung cancer, now we know who to screen and potentially what interventions need to be tailored to reach this population, which is suffering disproportionately from the pandemic. In the early days of the HIV pandemic, it was useful to know it was mostly a disease of gay men, right? That's not political, that's basic epidemiology, now you target and tailor your public health message.
      It’s interesting really. During the time period specified, Texas and Florida accounted for the majority of Covid cases. This graph does not include any data from Florida. The two most populous counties in Florida are Miami-Dade and Broward, both are generally blue counties. Both of these counties had very high covid numbers.

      In the area I’m in, the minority communities are extremely distrustful of and reluctant to get the vaccine. They definitely don’t lean republican. As far as hospital employees that are unvaccinated, in the majority, you would likely find political leanings to the left here.

      The point of the graph is not epidemiology. It is to link “Trump” in the title with bad Covid statistics. It’s a marketing technique. I guarantee that the person who made the graph started with a premise and then sorted the data and titled it, to make their message.

      I bet that early in the pandemic, when NY, NJ, MA etc had horrible Covid outcomes and high mortality rates, the same authors didn’t produce a graph titled…. “COVID Deaths by state vs Hillary % Vote”, but they could have, and some idiot probably did, as Trump himself mentioned it at the time.

      It’s all very complicated in a way, but don’t get me wrong…. I hate all politicians in both parties equally, especially as they get out there on the edge of their respective sides of the viewpoint bell curve.


      Comment


      • Originally posted by AR View Post

        Do you have some links handy to these inverted graphs? I would be very interested in them.
        No, but you can make your own. Play around with time periods and different boundaries (state, county, regional) and see what kind of graph titles you can come up with. This can be difficult for people with strong, one sided political viewpoints, so you almost have to place yourself in your enemy’s shoes when this is the case, and search out the data that specifically demonstrates the opposite of your belief system.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

          It’s interesting really. During the time period specified, Texas and Florida accounted for the majority of Covid cases. This graph does not include any data from Florida. The two most populous counties in Florida are Miami-Dade and Broward, both are generally blue counties. Both of these counties had very high covid numbers.

          In the area I’m in, the minority communities are extremely distrustful of and reluctant to get the vaccine. They definitely don’t lean republican. As far as hospital employees that are unvaccinated, in the majority, you would likely find political leanings to the left here.
          My state is sharply bifurcated. Minorities in Omaha and Lincoln are lagging in vaccination rates, but both cities have a total vaccination rate of 70-80% among the adult population, and after an initial slow start minorities seem to be catching up quickly. In the rural areas, the vaccination rates are much lower, and in those areas white Trump-leaning voters are the vaccine laggards (despite our Republican governor consistently being pro-vaccination).

          I think a lot of it comes down to who/where people are getting their information from, more than simple political affiliation. Who do they trust? If their trusted figures are pro-vaccine, that makes a big difference. Building that trust is what gets reluctant people to get vaccinated. Until they trust what you are saying to them is true, they simply won't get the jab.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FIREshrink View Post

            So data is correct... I made this point months ago, it's not political.
            The x-axis is political, so it's hard to say it's not political. I'll say up front I think Trump's management of COVID was mostly awful, and I'll say the same for many GOP governors as well. But speaking as someone who spends way too much time on Twitter these types of graphs or studies are usually used to "own" one side or the other, and are often constructed with that goal in mind..

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

              No, but you can make your own. Play around with time periods and different boundaries (state, county, regional) and see what kind of graph titles you can come up with. This can be difficult for people with strong, one sided political viewpoints, so you almost have to place yourself in your enemy’s shoes when this is the case, and search out the data that specifically demonstrates the opposite of your belief system.
              But why reinvent the wheel? As you said, this has got to be out there, right? So, let's see it.

              Besides, I don't want to be limited by my own biases. I'd love to see what someone with an actual agenda can produce.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
                This graph does not include any data from Florida.
                You probably should mention why it doesn't include FL. According to the creator, FL and NE are excluded because "they don't provide county-level data anymore".



                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

                  No, but you can make your own. Play around with time periods and different boundaries (state, county, regional) and see what kind of graph titles you can come up with. This can be difficult for people with strong, one sided political viewpoints, so you almost have to place yourself in your enemy’s shoes when this is the case, and search out the data that specifically demonstrates the opposite of your belief system.
                  I would be very curious to see data presented for vaccinated and unvaccinated in the same manner as infections, hospitalization and deaths. Daily , 7 day averages and the same slice and dice. If the data was sufficient in identifying and attacking the pandemic to begin with, the same approach would support any other conclusions. Never saw any statistics by election/party being used before. Agree with the above, cherry picking data on politics seems like a blame game.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
                    .

                    It’s all very complicated in a way, but don’t get me wrong…. I hate all politicians in both parties equally, especially as they get out there on the edge of their respective sides of the viewpoint bell curve.

                    Yes lies, damned lies, statistics.

                    But let's not dissemble. There is no equivalency here. One party has multiple members of Congress advocating or having advocated ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, no masks, vaccine skepticism, and the other party... doesn't.

                    It seems unhelpful to me to ignore this reality, if one's goal is to end the pandemic.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by AR View Post

                      But why reinvent the wheel? As you said, this has got to be out there, right? So, let's see it.

                      Besides, I don't want to be limited by my own biases. I'd love to see what someone with an actual agenda can produce.
                      Ok, but I only want to spend 10 seconds on it…..

                      Click image for larger version

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                      **from The Journal of My Imagination, Sept 3rd 2021.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

                        Ok, but I only want to spend 10 seconds on it…..

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	0A026501-BAF0-4D6F-8130-C7AA1AF1D93F.jpeg
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                        **from The Journal of My Imagination, Sept 3rd 2021.
                        Call me crazy, but the other graph is more compelling.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by AR View Post
                          You probably should mention why it doesn't include FL. According to the creator, FL and NE are excluded because "they don't provide county-level data anymore".
                          Ahh.. I guess I didn’t realize that.

                          Click image for larger version

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                          • Originally posted by FIREshrink View Post
                            It seems unhelpful to me to ignore this reality, if one's goal is to end the pandemic.
                            Unfortunately, politics is not confined to just the pandemic. It would be nice if the pandemic wasn’t politicized.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

                              Ahh.. I guess I didn’t realize that.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Well the Y-axis is "deaths", and I don't see that anywhere in your screen shot of county stats. So, I'm not sure what your point is?

                              I'm looking at a pretty tiny screen here, so apologies if deaths was somewhere in your post and I didn't see it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by AR View Post

                                Well the Y-axis is "deaths", and I don't see that anywhere in your screen shot of county stats. So, I'm not sure what your point is?

                                I'm looking at a pretty tiny screen here, so apologies if deaths was somewhere in your post and I didn't see it.
                                Ahhh…Sorry, that is on pages 1 & 8 of the weekly reports….

                                I guess the deaths aren’t arranged by county…. Those sneaky, data hiding bastards!!!!
                                Overall not a bad system of reporting though?

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                                Last edited by Jaqen Haghar MD; 09-03-2021, 01:12 PM.

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