Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Tim]

StarTrekDoc: Thanks, I need to put more thought into the financial support. It's a little tough since my parents are older and not financially independent. I want to continue helping them, but JFC, I don't agree one bit with their decision to remain unvaccinated.
artemis: It's pretty maddening. At this point, nothing surprises me when it comes to reasons for refusing the vaccine.

We have a 94 yr old MIL. We try to make her days as normal as possible. She keeps a schedule breakfast lunch and dinner at the same time. Watches TV and we try to get her outside on the patio in the right weather. See the flowers and birds and squirrels. PT two or three times a day. I could see her diminished mental capacity dropping off a cliff. I guess we are lucky she watches Spanish TV and no internet. Her children, grand children and great grand children are another story. They seek advice on every thing from sniffles, broken bones and OR visits for every age from birth through 94 years old.
EXCEPT covid and vaccines. My daughter has simply expressed that it is simply some weird mental condition. Asks advice and opinions on anything else. Maybe the politics made it too confusing and the brain just shut down to avoid making any decisions. Deer in the headlights is the only description of the mental process. Default is simply freeze. And then try to explain the freeze, It defies any rational explanation. I hope someday some psych can explain it. No, no, no. All because something triggered no decision.

[Zaphod]

Frankly i dont make time for it which is sad. Non political parent has gone crazy, watching hours of youtube, I just immediately crush any convo of that nature when its posed to me as 'what do you think of x some dummy online/tv/etc says' I come out very strong and say no fkn way, dumb af and so stupid. And frankly decrease my interactions, its terrible and sad but what is going on in the world.

Plenty of stories from docs where people refuse to go to er or acknowledge covid and dying.

[FIREshrink]

So bizarre, we had a patient at work like this too. +covid test, typical covid symptoms, but wouldn’t accept the fact that she had covid. Some psych issue going on there.

I see little difference between someone who denies the existence of COVID or believes ivermectin is a safe treatment and someone who believes suicide bombing to death 75 people is a path to heaven. They are on the same continuum. Both have become slaves to ideology over reason and fact.

[Lithium]

There is some doctor in Ohio who has made a living off of spreading vaccine misinformation. I think she is classified as one of the top 10 sources of misinformation in America. There are clips online where she is telling crowds of people that getting vaccines causes silverware to stick to your body. Anyway she still has an active medical license. That just indicates how impossible it is to get the medical boards to do anything about this. I heard a news reporter ask an anti vaxxer what she thought about the FDA approval of Pfizer and she said that she trusted this kooky anti vaccine MD instead.

My brother is one of these nuts who thinks that all the doctors are bought off by these pharmaceutical companies and the government… yet he trusts his doctor.

[braindoc]

Anyone else dealing with antivaccine/covid conspiracy theories within their family? How are you handling it?

My fiancé's parents who have always been ones to be skeptical and buy-in to conspiracies have gone completely off the rails over the past few years, particularly with Covid. They went from your typical conservative, Fox News watching, completely reasonable voters to absurdly delusional in their beliefs. They collect their information from random deep web articles found on Facebook, NewsMax, New York Post, Breitbart, YouTube, etc. Her mother has started attacking my fiancé whenever they talk on the phone. God forbid she brings up Covid to her. Supposedly we are "sheeple" and all we do is "watch CNN" (which we don't.) It's gotten to the point where I haven't seen them in over two months because I've grown tired of being angrily lectured to about medicine by a pilot and SAHM, and my fiancé has only seen them once during that time. We used to all get together every weekend and spend great time together. Yes, we would often have to redirect conversations but it was never this bad. I previously thought that we could all hold our differences in opinions respectively and enjoy time together, but it appears that this is no longer an option. It's actually quite sad and I'm at a loss of what to do. Our anecdotal stories mean nothing to them. Our opinions mean nothing to them. Simply not talking about these issues is not an option. Can't get through a dinner without them raging. They know better than everyone. Sorry to vent, just frustrated with what is happening within our country.

Yes. Brother and sister in-law in early 30s refuse to get vaccinated. Originally saying it was due to possibility of fertility issues and now saying that it is because they do not want to "alter their body's immune response and need boosters for ailments that are unrelated to covid and because they do not want to contribute to a medical surveillance state and support vaccine passports."

The amount of bs surrounding this pandemic is astounding.

like artemis mentioned, can't help but feel insulted by how little they respect my and my wife's (MPH) option.

[Panscan]

Israeli data indicate that a booster decreases hospitalizations in elders.

So give them to everyone? Israeli data is horrible.

the 2 vax course works great at preventing severe illness, slightly less great in elderly. Sure give them a booster but if you’re a healthy 30 yr old person I haven’t seen any impressive data to support boosters in that age and risk group.

Obviously also the degree of reducing hospitalization matters.

[Panscan]

I see little difference between someone who denies the existence of COVID or believes ivermectin is a safe treatment and someone who believes suicide bombing to death 75 people is a path to heaven. They are on the same continuum. Both have become slaves to ideology over reason and fact.

That’s a pretty laughable comparison. Both groups you mentioned are dumb but even if you argue the “ fake news “ person is indirectly killing people that is totally different than a suicide bomber.

it’s ironic how your post is very ideological.

[StarTrekDoc]

So give them to everyone? Israeli data is horrible.

the 2 vax course works great at preventing severe illness, slightly less great in elderly. Sure give them a booster but if you’re a healthy 30 yr old person I haven’t seen any impressive data to support boosters in that age and risk group.

Obviously also the degree of reducing hospitalization matters.

It's also to slow the rate of spread and protect the unprotected. Delta has caused in clinic transmissions and knocked out a few staff this past month and quarantined a few more, impacting our operations enough to be need schedules modified. The theory is higher titers will combat more effectively and will lessen shedding viral loads.

[WorkingToFish]

I see little difference between someone who denies the existence of COVID or believes ivermectin is a safe treatment and someone who believes suicide bombing to death 75 people is a path to heaven. They are on the same continuum. Both have become slaves to ideology over reason and fact.

Is this a lame attempt at a joke or do you really believe this?

[Tim]

It's also to slow the rate of spread and protect the unprotected. Delta has caused in clinic transmissions and knocked out a few staff this past month and quarantined a few more, impacting our operations enough to be need schedules modified. The theory is higher titers will combat more effectively and will lessen shedding viral loads.

I greatly respect your explanations. Many theories, some competing. I feel like it's a day at the track, the race need to be run, photo finish judged and then their is the possibility for a DQ. Sorry for those impacted in your operations. Not going to bet on this race. Thanks for the updates.

[CBCwDiffpls]

Sorry to hear some of the stories in here with people losing contact with their families once they go down the rabbit hole. Most of my family has been sensible but we have that one uncle who we are now almost at the end of the rope with. This uncle was always a little, off - juice cleanses, preference for “natural” type stuff, did some alternative vaccine schedule for his kids, generally paranoid political views… but all stuff we could generally sweep under the rug during family gatherings, know when to disengage etc, and it was never an issue. His social media used to be the occasional political post (garden variety stuff about taxes, illegal immigrants and stuff), interspersed with some dog or cat joke or something, maybe 2-3 total posts a week.

Now it’s like he’s been militarized, and become quite aggressive, like he’s instigating us (especially wife and I, maybe since we’re physicians) to challenge his “knowledge” regarding vaccines, social control and all that crap. His social media is now entirely stuff about the government,

it has really put a strain on my parents since they used to be very close to him, and now don’t want to see him any more. Even his own wife (very reasonable, smart person) is getting scared of him, and calls us for medical advice because she wants to know the risk for her family and stuff like that.

[FIREshrink]

Is this a lame attempt at a joke or do you really believe this?

I really believe they are equally unintelligent - not equally evil, but have equally surrendered their powers of critical thinking. These are cults, nothing more or less. Give them all Kool Aid and half would drink it.

[artemis]

Sorry to hear some of the stories in here with people losing contact with their families once they go down the rabbit hole. Most of my family has been sensible but we have that one uncle who we are now almost at the end of the rope with. This uncle was always a little, off - juice cleanses, preference for “natural” type stuff, did some alternative vaccine schedule for his kids, generally paranoid political views… but all stuff we could generally sweep under the rug during family gatherings, know when to disengage etc, and it was never an issue. His social media used to be the occasional political post (garden variety stuff about taxes, illegal immigrants and stuff), interspersed with some dog or cat joke or something, maybe 2-3 total posts a week.

Now it’s like he’s been militarized, and become quite aggressive, like he’s instigating us (especially wife and I, maybe since we’re physicians) to challenge his “knowledge” regarding vaccines, social control and all that crap. His social media is now entirely stuff about the government,

it has really put a strain on my parents since they used to be very close to him, and now don’t want to see him any more. Even his own wife (very reasonable, smart person) is getting scared of him, and calls us for medical advice because she wants to know the risk for her family and stuff like that.

How old is he? When these sorts of personality changes develop in an elderly person, I always wonder if dementia is beginning to rear its head. (Of course, under age 70 that's not as likely an explanation).

[FIREshrink]

Error: corrected

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/u...&region=footer

[East coast]

Government intelligence leaning toward lab origin of Covid, but with low confidence:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/politics/covid-origin-lab-leak.html?action=click&block=associated_collection_recirc&impression_id=6b8af680-0775-11ec-890b-c53d742d381e&index=0&pgtype=Article&region=footer

"the new report said the intelligence council and other agencies favoring the natural theory only had only low confidence in their conclusions — a sign that the intelligence behind the assessment was not strong and that conclusions could change."

I think you have that backwards...