Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Tim]

I suspect once fully FDA approved most health systems will mandate it.

The problem is only one has submitted for full approval is my understanding, Pfizer.

Mandates some think are a slam dunk. I think the Supreme Court will decide.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/new-york-city-vaccine-mandate-will-test-the-authority-of-a-1905-supreme-court-case-113833108.html

In reality, there are many issues that have not been addressed with government and employer mandates. I/n some cases, i can see "how they were implemented were not legitimate", not the mandate itself. This will be fast tracked for sure. Moderna and J&J haven't even been submitted. One question would be how would either of those qualify for meeting a mandate if final approval was required? A lot of moving pieces using discretion rather than science.

Has science changed since 1905? Was that standard applicable in today's environment? I doubt attorneys flew to Washington or electronically filed. Just pointing out life is different and if they come back to the Constitution we may get some surprises.

[StarTrekDoc]

You can 'mandate' all you want; at the end of the day. People have choices and health system won't let non-mandate folk go over a personal health decision.

For our system, we have universal masking.
Unvaccinated: need to have twice a week swabs and daily attestation of no symptoms and wear N95 mask. That's about as good as we're going to get on reasonable coverage.

As for RP - he maybe a good ob/gyn who did a lot of work, but he's done some serious harm in not using his MD in the right manner. I don't think he's wrong in pursuing the whole lab thing, but the way to badger Fauci and grandstanding is just hard to even take RP seriously and everyone is for the worse with each encounter. Cassidy at least is trying to do some good as a physician politician.

[Tim]

You can 'mandate' all you want; at the end of the day. People have choices and health system won't let non-mandate folk go over a personal health decision.

For our system, we have universal masking.
Unvaccinated: need to have twice a week swabs and daily attestation of no symptoms and wear N95 mask. That's about as good as we're going to get on reasonable coverage.

As for RP - he maybe a good ob/gyn who did a lot of work, but he's done some serious harm in not using his MD in the right manner. I don't think he's wrong in pursuing the whole lab thing, but the way to badger Fauci and grandstanding is just hard to even take RP seriously and everyone is for the worse with each encounter. Cassidy at least is trying to do some good as a physician politician.

I agree that both RP and Fauci are grandstanding, for political reasons not a medical debate. That is why I find both hard to take seriously. I would love if each would actual not debate or attack but have a civil discussion about the data. Let anyone make up their own minds rather than trying to press a conclusion based on their point of view. They have a right to their opinions, but talk facts not politics or messaging.

[snowcanyon]

You can 'mandate' all you want; at the end of the day. People have choices and health system won't let non-mandate folk go over a personal health decision.

For our system, we have universal masking.
Unvaccinated: need to have twice a week swabs and daily attestation of no symptoms and wear N95 mask. That's about as good as we're going to get on reasonable coverage.

As for RP - he maybe a good ob/gyn who did a lot of work, but he's done some serious harm in not using his MD in the right manner. I don't think he's wrong in pursuing the whole lab thing, but the way to badger Fauci and grandstanding is just hard to even take RP seriously and everyone is for the worse with each encounter. Cassidy at least is trying to do some good as a physician politician.

Our system doesn't test anyone, and discourages it, no N-95s except for "AGPs" which have been debunked, and while they "require" masking they don't do anything if patients and staff don't.

[StateOfMyHead]

You can 'mandate' all you want; at the end of the day. People have choices and health system won't let non-mandate folk go over a personal health decision.

For our system, we have universal masking.
Unvaccinated: need to have twice a week swabs and daily attestation of no symptoms and wear N95 mask. That's about as good as we're going to get on reasonable coverage.

Sounds like some biggies in Baltimore/DC are mandating. Hopefully the vaccine or testing thing won't be an option unless the individual picks up the tab for testing. My hospital is now saying vaccine or no job unless a health or religious exception.

[Lordosis]

Sounds like some biggies in Baltimore/DC are mandating. Hopefully the vaccine or testing thing won't be an option unless the individual picks up the tab for testing. My hospital is now saying vaccine or no job unless a health or religious exception.

As an atheist I never get out of anything (other than church) good thing I actually want this vaccine.

[Tim]

What is the difference between a Garth Brooks Concert and an Obama Birthday Bash?
Quarantine restrictions if you attended. The birthday bash gets a pass.

https://news.yahoo.com/unvaccinated-kansas-residents-went-garth-193954685.html

The optics and messaging seem to be directed inconsistently. Of course the Sturgis SD messaging is being heavily messaged.
Not one word on the status of people crossing the southern border and being released willy nilly. A consistent messaging of all parties would make it apolitical.
That seems to be impossible. The health risk is the same, be consistent TODAY regardless of the optics or messaging. Delta will take it's toll regardless of the politics. Not intended to be a political statement, simply examples of inconsistencies that exist.

[Kamban]

Sounds like some biggies in Baltimore/DC are mandating. Hopefully the vaccine or testing thing won't be an option unless the individual picks up the tab for testing. My hospital is now saying vaccine or no job unless a health or religious exception.

Sorry, what is this nonsense about religious exemption. AFAIK COVID does not discriminate based on religion. There are thousands of religions in this world including pastafarian and satanism. Do we give them religious exemption if a nutjob priest of that religion declares it.

Stop all religious exemption. Get the vaccine. You want to be excluded based on religion - go ahead, get out and find another job.

[CordMcNally]

What is the difference between a Garth Brooks Concert and an Obama Birthday Bash?
Quarantine restrictions if you attended. The birthday bash gets a pass.

https://news.yahoo.com/unvaccinated-kansas-residents-went-garth-193954685.html

The optics and messaging seem to be directed inconsistently. Of course the Sturgis SD messaging is being heavily messaged.
Not one word on the status of people crossing the southern border and being released willy nilly. A consistent messaging of all parties would make it apolitical.
That seems to be impossible. The health risk is the same, be consistent TODAY regardless of the optics or messaging. Delta will take it's toll regardless of the politics. Not intended to be a political statement, simply examples of inconsistencies that exist.

You would think the bad reporting about Sturgis last year would have made some people think twice about commenting this year. I guess not.

[CordMcNally]

Where Covid has been running hot.

That eliminates about 2 out of the 50 states.

[Kamban]

You can 'mandate' all you want; at the end of the day. People have choices and health system won't let non-mandate folk go over a personal health decision.

For our system, we have universal masking.
Unvaccinated: need to have twice a week swabs and daily attestation of no symptoms and wear N95 mask. That's about as good as we're going to get on reasonable coverage.

As for RP - he maybe a good ob/gyn who did a lot of work, but he's done some serious harm in not using his MD in the right manner. I don't think he's wrong in pursuing the whole lab thing, but the way to badger Fauci and grandstanding is just hard to even take RP seriously and everyone is for the worse with each encounter. Cassidy at least is trying to do some good as a physician politician.

The better option would be to pass the costs of all these swabs, tests and N-95 on to that person or their insurance. The insurance should then pass it on to them since they have chosen to not get the vaccine.

When will we start having a backbone. The insurance does denials left and right on so many tests and procedures. Why not do it where it matters.

[Tim]

You would think the bad reporting about Sturgis last year would have made some people think twice about commenting this year. I guess not.

Agree. 100%. At least Burning Man was cancelled!

[billy]

What is the difference between a Garth Brooks Concert and an Obama Birthday Bash?
Quarantine restrictions if you attended. The birthday bash gets a pass.

https://news.yahoo.com/unvaccinated-kansas-residents-went-garth-193954685.html

The optics and messaging seem to be directed inconsistently. Of course the Sturgis SD messaging is being heavily messaged.
Not one word on the status of people crossing the southern border and being released willy nilly. A consistent messaging of all parties would make it apolitical.
That seems to be impossible. The health risk is the same, be consistent TODAY regardless of the optics or messaging. Delta will take it's toll regardless of the politics. Not intended to be a political statement, simply examples of inconsistencies that exist.

Big difference between vaccinated vs unknown crowds, and ? if testing was done. No chance sturgis is filled with 100% vaccinated participants. I'd say the same for the concert. Dont know about obama's, but if they were vaccinated guests they should advertise that.

Full disclaimer- I hosted a 55 person fundraiser earlier this summer for my wife's cancer foundation. Only those who were vaccinated were invited, and I asked everyone to get tested within a few days before the event. Some complained about the testing, I told them I would refund their donation if they didn't want to test. I didn't want to be the host of a super spreader event especially with cancer patients present. Honestly it was safer than eating in the "physician" OR lounge daily.

[StarTrekDoc]

The better option would be to pass the costs of all these swabs, tests and N-95 on to that person or their insurance. The insurance should then pass it on to them since they have chosen to not get the vaccine.

When will we start having a backbone. The insurance does denials left and right on so many tests and procedures. Why not do it where it matters.

Cause the taxpayers are footing all the costs of these testings. o/w we would absolutely be seeing the costs passed through and/or denials.

As I've said before -- future generations will feel the $3+Trillion spending we've done to date in direct Covid.

[StateOfMyHead]

As I've said before -- future generations will feel the $3+Trillion spending we've done to date in direct Covid.

And yet the stock and real estate markets are on fire. How can that even make sense?