Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[billy]

I'm curious what the rationale is for not getting it. Concern for mRNA vector, side effects, inconvenience? Gives me pause when smart people aren't following the party line.

eh, theres a vascular surgeon at my place that goes on anti-this vaccine rants- stating its not a "vaccine" (mRNA version), its forced on us, natural herd immunity, masking is preventing his immune system from working etc etc- this is full blown right wing conspiracy theory nutjob level. And the sad thing is, the two hospitals he works at were both slammed with covid last year. He saw what it did at the other hospital placing central lines in these patients.

[Lithium]

Not a big fan of Rand Paul. His father was way out there libertarian. Whether you agree with him or not there are a number of reasons that catching covid could lead to a better immunity. "Better* to me is not a reason to not take the vaccine. My take is the vaccine works on a target and the actual infection works for a broader immunity. Trash me but I am an observer only. Paul is a libertarian and has chosen to use those principles for his opinion.I don't think Fauci and CDC have data to refute Paul's position. A lot of "it is logical to project that the best course is XYZ." Both sides may be right and both may be wrong.

The senate testimony exchange between he and Fauci was very interesting.
Fauci refuse to answer the specific question. Carefully worded denial and then attacked. No answer to the question, did you fund gain of function research. Denial was I did not fund the research for this virus. That was not the question.

It took me 30 seconds to find this: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

I don’t want to get into the politics too much as I’m not on Team Fauci either. I didn’t get the sense that Fauci really refuted him, but RP’s attacks just seemed like political grandstanding.

[Sampter]

The early retirement I believe is for real. The other 3 I've heard of through the grape vine have until the end of next month to comply. There is one other large health system in town that hasn't required vaccine, but it's likely they will require it once EUA is lifted and it's fully FDA mandated. Also, it's likely they all have a pesky non-compete to deal with.

Another physician I know personally, is hoping to get some exception based on natural immunity. I don't expect it to work. I would be very surprised if that person decided to quit, but who knows.

It will be very interesting with health systems regarding vaccine mandates when a high powered surgeon/money maker doesn't want to get vaccinated. A health system won't give a hoot about an easily replaceable specialty, but what about if 1 of 3 cardiothoracic surgeons is pushing back? Easy to say good riddance in theory, but they will be sweating for certain.

[snowcanyon]

It will be very interesting with health systems regarding vaccine mandates when a high powered surgeon/money maker doesn't want to get vaccinated. A health system won't give a hoot about an easily replaceable specialty, but what about if 1 of 3 cardiothoracic surgeons is pushing back? Easy to say good riddance in theory, but they will be sweating for certain.

I don't understand why patients aren't demanding vaccinated caregivers. That would change this, pronto.
Honestly, I think it's mostly nurses they are concerned about.
If 1 in 3 Ct surgeons is pushing back, we have a huge problem that extends far beyond vaccination.

[Lithium]

It will be very interesting with health systems regarding vaccine mandates when a high powered surgeon/money maker doesn't want to get vaccinated. A health system won't give a hoot about an easily replaceable specialty, but what about if 1 of 3 cardiothoracic surgeons is pushing back? Easy to say good riddance in theory, but they will be sweating for certain.

The part of me that loves to see admin sweat would root hard for something like this, but I don’t see how they can bend the rules on this sort of policy without risking severe liability and front page news. Certainly this should be part of the calculus before instituting mandates. There’s not really a gray area with vaccination.

[Sampter]

I don't understand why patients aren't demanding vaccinated caregivers. That would change this, pronto.
Honestly, I think it's mostly nurses they are concerned about.
If 1 in 3 Ct surgeons is pushing back, we have a huge problem that extends far beyond vaccination.

I agree with you, but there are more unvaccinated physicians out there then we all like to believe. In our system our physician vaccine rate is ~ 90% which is good, but still leaves a fair number not.

[Sampter]

The part of me that loves to see admin sweat would root hard for something like this, but I don’t see how they can bend the rules on this sort of policy without risking severe liability and front page news. There’s not really a gray area with vaccination.

These may go right to the top with CEO and the physician meeting face to face.

[Lithium]

These may go right to the top with CEO and the physician meeting face to face.

Yeah, perhaps. If a CT surgeon got a $100k bonus to get the vaccine, well, God bless him.

[CordMcNally]

It will be very interesting with health systems regarding vaccine mandates when a high powered surgeon/money maker doesn't want to get vaccinated. A health system won't give a hoot about an easily replaceable specialty, but what about if 1 of 3 cardiothoracic surgeons is pushing back? Easy to say good riddance in theory, but they will be sweating for certain.

The easiest way is what I think one poster here said a while back that they were doing in their area. Have all the hospital systems in a certain area mandate the vaccine together. If you aren't vaccinated then you won't have a job in that area. I think we all know putting that kind of personal finance pressure on most physicians will typically work since a majority aren't in a place to just walk away. That said, I'm not necessarily saying I 100% support vaccine mandates.

[Sampter]

The easiest way is what I think one poster here said a while back that they were doing in their area. Have all the hospital systems in a certain area mandate the vaccine together. If you aren't vaccinated then you won't have a job in that area. I think we all know putting that kind of personal finance pressure on most physicians will typically work since a majority aren't in a place to just walk away. That said, I'm not necessarily saying I 100% support vaccine mandates.

I suspect once fully FDA approved most health systems will mandate it.

[Tim]

It took me 30 seconds to find this: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

I don’t want to get into the politics too much as I’m not on Team Fauci either. I didn’t get the sense that Fauci really refuted him, but RP’s attacks just seemed like political grandstanding.

"May and June were selected because of vaccine supply and eligibility requirement considerations; this period was more likely to reflect resident choice to be vaccinated, rather than eligibility to receive vaccine."
They also "tried to correct for supply and eligibility requirement." "antigen test result during May 1–June 30, 2021"
A ton of eligibility and availability leads to the question of Kentucky's eligibility and availability. I am not a stat guy, maybe you are. The population data set and the results are different populations with access to vaccine and not the same different places. Have you noted CDC publishing any negative studies? Maybe they do but ..... well, one state study has some questions is my only point. I am not disputing the results, adjustments or their conclusions. But I think there is more work to be done.
Again, personally I disagree that a vaccine would not enhance protection. I don't get a lot of comfort and have not idea the characteristics of the living conditions (primarily population density) or the health status of the data set. Not for me to be the judge. It is a good first attempt but I would not base a "restrictive national guidelines" (such as taking away ones living or access to public venues) on this only. The total population of the top two cities in Kentucky don't reach 1m. The next 2 are under 100k. I call this a "rural sample", not a basis for the country. Maybe that is why Rand Paul is so confident. He does not live in a congested area.
Thanks for the report. I wish CDC was coordinating a state by state data collection and producing the results. Tons should be available, but is not. That would be a good question for Fauci and CDC. Pose it as a constructive suggestion not a political motivation.

[Tangler]

my brother (surgeon) tested positive yesterday. He was vaccinated and was wearing N95 masks. Just unlucky i guess. He is in Alabama and they have a lot of patients in his hospital. He is in shape, runs 4-7 miles a day and is thin. He is annoyed and grouchy but seems to be ok. I bought a pulse ox for him. Anyway, like lordosis he was vaccinated so be careful out there. Fortunately the vaccinated seem to be doing ok, but he is certainly more sick than i expected (coughing, flu-like stuff).
Really glad he and the rest of my tribe are vaccinated, but i was hoping for really mild cold and his deal is more like bad flu.
Anyway, don’t let your guard down too much. Especially if you are an old critter with comorbidities.

[billy]

my brother (surgeon) tested positive yesterday. He was vaccinated and was wearing N95 masks. Just unlucky i guess. He is in Alabama and they have a lot of patients in his hospital. He is in shape, runs 4-7 miles a day and is thin. He is annoyed and grouchy but seems to be ok. I bought a pulse ox for him. Anyway, like lordosis he was vaccinated so be careful out there. Fortunately the vaccinated seem to be doing ok, but he is certainly more sick than i expected (coughing, flu-like stuff).
Really glad he and the rest of my tribe are vaccinated, but i was hoping for really mild cold and his deal is more like bad flu.
Anyway, don’t let your guard down too much. Especially if you are an old critter with comorbidities.

Wishing him well.

[snowcanyon]

I suspect once fully FDA approved most health systems will mandate it.

Ours has said they have no plans to.

[snowcanyon]

I agree with you, but there are more unvaccinated physicians out there then we all like to believe. In our system our physician vaccine rate is ~ 90% which is good, but still leaves a fair number not.

Yikes. And the other 10%...need to go work at Homeopathic General.
What part of the country are you in?