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  • Originally posted by FIREshrink View Post
    I want to vaccinate my kids and asked this group their thoughts from a legal, ethical, and medical standpoint about doing it two days early. Then met with all kinds of presumptions mostly incorrect as well as judgments mostly uninformed.

    Least judgmental way to have responded might be, do the benefits of early treatment outweigh the risks? Or perhaps that's how I should have asked the question.

    If the goal is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate... Then is two days early a problem? Why/why not?
    Whether you realize it or not you come across as very defensive after hearing some opinions. After all, this is an internet board so take what you want and let the others fly over your head.

    My take is

    1. One or two days earlier does not make any difference. If someone can give it at that age without you having to fib, go ahead.

    2. Regarding the correct dose - I have no idea.

    3. From your posts it appears he took part in activities for the past 8 months, some without mask. You are not concerned about him getting COVID, since you believe that in his age group it should be fine should he get it. Most likely, but life sometimes gives unexpected surprises.

    4. No vaccine is going to give immunity in 48 hours after injection. So you are doing it so that he can take part in activities that only vaccinated people are allowed and not because he is immune. Not sure what your thoughts are about him mixing with unvaccinated people who may not be able to be vaccinated for some reason or the other.

    5. I am not sure what UK/EU policy is for people who are just vaccinated and not post 2 weeks vaccination. You might want to check on that.

    Peace and good luck.


    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sundance View Post

      This is nuts. Who cares if a kid gets a shot 2 days before his birthday? On the flip side who cares if a 12 year old unvaccinated kid goes to another country? Do people really feel vaccinating a healthy 12 year is really a big deal either way.. if you want it get it, but if not who cares.

      Is a vaccinated kid less likely to transmit the virus?? It sure seems like vaccination status doesn’t prevent deltas transmission. Obviously it lessens the risk of severe illness but that’s not happening in a 12 year old anyways.
      Stop by your local children's hospital.

      The highest risk of healthy folk remains morbid obesity and we have that in spades in America.

      As far as transmission, the CDC is taking Provincetown and extrapolating in way that I'm not confident is valid. The density and length of exposure was extreme. I'm interested in how many vaccinated persons infected had secondary transmissions into their respective households where there was no high risk club exposures...

      Eg. the vaccinated worker of the club coming home and giving it to vaccinated grandma due to standard regular household contact. If THAT data is presist then I'd be a bit more willing to mask up more often and intensely.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Lithium View Post

        There was another poster here (maybe he doesn’t want to be named, so I won’t) who gave the vaccine to his daughter when she was 17, early in the year. He didn’t seem to have qualms about it.

        I can’t imagine the medical risk is more than negligible.
        That was me. My daughter got it in Dec 2020 when she was just over 16 years old.

        But then it had FDA indication for that age group. The hospital checked her driver's license for her date of birth and only then did they give her the vaccine.

        In her case she helped out as assistant to the main MA in my practice. She was putting in patients into the room and we had no idea if they had presymptomatic stage or not ( three actually turned out to be). For me I felt that the risk of major morbidity, mortality or even long term sequalae from the disease was more than the vaccine. Besides she also had hybrid school attendance and both of us felt more at peace after 2 doses of the mRNA vaccine.

        Comment


        • My system is flat-out refusing to require vaccination.

          They have said since vaccinated people can transmit, it's not necessary and they doubt they will ever require it (FWIW they require flu vaccination and have for years). They only require surgical masks for anything and everything aside from intubation, and they don't even enforce those.

          They said there is no risk of transmission with appropriate PPE, which they don't provide, and that we have to understand the "feelings" of the unvaccinated. They made no mention of the feelings of the vaccinated, the feelings of those who have lost people to Covid, or the concern that caregivers don't care about science.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post
            My system is flat-out refusing to require vaccination.

            They have said since vaccinated people can transmit, it's not necessary and they doubt they will ever require it (FWIW they require flu vaccination and have for years). They only require surgical masks for anything and everything aside from intubation, and they don't even enforce those.

            They said there is no risk of transmission with appropriate PPE, which they don't provide, and that we have to understand the "feelings" of the unvaccinated. They made no mention of the feelings of the vaccinated, the feelings of those who have lost people to Covid, or the concern that caregivers don't care about science.
            I get both arguments for and against mandatory vaccination but that seems like a pretty loosey goosey position from a hospital.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sundance View Post

              This is nuts. Who cares if a kid gets a shot 2 days before his birthday? On the flip side who cares if a 12 year old unvaccinated kid goes to another country? Do people really feel vaccinating a healthy 12 year is really a big deal either way.. if you want it get it, but if not who cares.

              Is a vaccinated kid less likely to transmit the virus?? It sure seems like vaccination status doesn’t prevent deltas transmission. Obviously it lessens the risk of severe illness but that’s not happening in a 12 year old anyways.
              You need to direct your question to the country he is visiting or living in. I was not advocating the one way or another for a 12 yo. YES, some countries (including the US) have laws and regulations that make zero sense. That doesn’t leave the choice to the individual. I doubt it would be a big deal to the country he was visiting if the trip was canceled. Those regulations are the responsibility of the government’s.

              Nuts ? Argue with them, not me. I personally feel CDC is crazy for requiring masks on a 3 year old. Next, a zero tolerance on the horizon? Power freaks are everywhere. Yes, I think there are a ton of irrational decisions being made under the “guise” of Covid. All this is not “science”.

              Intentionally violating the intent of a regulation is not what I would favor in either country. At least teach the kid to get a waiver. Not just vaccines.
              I don’t buy 2 days after a shot although “technically in compliance” is an effective vaccination. Maybe that wasn’t their intent, go ask them.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post
                My system is flat-out refusing to require vaccination.

                They have said since vaccinated people can transmit, it's not necessary and they doubt they will ever require it (FWIW they require flu vaccination and have for years). They only require surgical masks for anything and everything aside from intubation, and they don't even enforce those.

                They said there is no risk of transmission with appropriate PPE, which they don't provide, and that we have to understand the "feelings" of the unvaccinated. They made no mention of the feelings of the vaccinated, the feelings of those who have lost people to Covid, or the concern that caregivers don't care about science.
                I would not want to work for this hospital.

                Comment


                • I agree. It's absurd.
                  I think we can all agree that health facilities need mandatory vaccination or at the very least the move towards these.
                  I was sickened.
                  I like my job, there are no others in my state, but I can't stand for this and will be leaving.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kamban View Post

                    Whether you realize it or not you come across as very defensive after hearing some opinions. After all, this is an internet board so take what you want and let the others fly over your head.

                    My take is

                    1. One or two days earlier does not make any difference. If someone can give it at that age without you having to fib, go ahead.

                    2. Regarding the correct dose - I have no idea.

                    3. From your posts it appears he took part in activities for the past 8 months, some without mask. You are not concerned about him getting COVID, since you believe that in his age group it should be fine should he get it. Most likely, but life sometimes gives unexpected surprises.

                    4. No vaccine is going to give immunity in 48 hours after injection. So you are doing it so that he can take part in activities that only vaccinated people are allowed and not because he is immune. Not sure what your thoughts are about him mixing with unvaccinated people who may not be able to be vaccinated for some reason or the other.

                    5. I am not sure what UK/EU policy is for people who are just vaccinated and not post 2 weeks vaccination. You might want to check on that.

                    Peace and good luck.

                    Well i was repeatedly and erroneously accused of lying, so i have some right to be defensive. Aside from that I would just request people actually read what I wrote, as it would have prevented a lot of misunderstandings .

                    I am concerned about covid, but judge activities on a range of risk. Outdoor soccer, low risk. Skiing, very low risk. Indoor choir concert with a hundred in the crowd packed in like sardines without masks, high risk. We have avoided and will continue to avoid all high risk activities until he is fully vaccinated. However, low to moderate risk activities we've participated in, on a case by case basis, depending on a number of factors including community prevalence. For example after the adults were fully vaccinated and the spring surge ended, we ate indoors a couple times. We also took a plane trip. Now that the delta surge is here, we're not doing those things. By the time of our trip, our daughter will be (is now) fully vaccinated so we have only him to worry about. He's very fit, thin, healthy. So we are willing to take a few calculated risks if prevalence is low, even if he's not vaccinated. For instance, we'll take a plane flight; or go out to eat in uncrowded restaurants. Or attend a family function where all the adults and eligible kids are vaccinated. These are pretty typical risk benefit decisions all parents make and I doubt anyone here especially those who were quite vocal in their criticism would decry those individual decisions as irresponsible.

                    Yes the policy may not make sense, and could change, but given the policy the risk benefit analysis is still up to me. I can consider individual circumstances as they arise, all the policy grants is the right to make that decision for myself. Policy or no policy if the risk is high, we're not doing it.
                    Last edited by FIREshrink; 08-05-2021, 08:49 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tim View Post
                      :
                      1) Get your kid vaccinated one month early. Both shots and be done with it. This requires you to reject the FDA 12 year old limit and rely on the judgement of you as a parent and the pediatrician. In this case, the host country receives full compliance..

                      Simple, elegant solution, I'm going to think about this.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by FIREshrink View Post

                        Simple, elegant solution, I'm going to think about this.
                        StarTrekDoc Reread his comment regarding dosages etc. Way over my head.
                        Your pediatrician is a better judge of how you child’s body has matured. It’s not just height and weight, but you know that. One month may be inconsequential, but your child might not be ready for it regardless.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tim View Post

                          StarTrekDoc Reread his comment regarding dosages etc. Way over my head.
                          Your pediatrician is a better judge of how you child’s body has matured. It’s not just height and weight, but you know that. One month may be inconsequential, but your child might not be ready for it regardless.
                          I get it - the issue though is none of us have a clue on what proper dosing is outside the posted usage of this EUA vaccine. To start adjusting dosing on a vaccine experience of three months is a spot where even our academic pediatricians will balk at unless within a study protocol. Yes, a pediatrician is better suited than a layperson. As is a general mechanic looking at a Indy 500 engine and asking the mechanic to take a gander on adjusting a gasket or two.

                          And agree the issue maybe more with said county than anything else. Best solution really is CVS and have nonmedical spouse attest to age. Full disclosure - we had my daughter 2nd dose 3 days early since we were travelling and would have put at nearly 45 days otherwise; so broke that protocol early -- didn't ask fellow colleagues to do it. Just went to CVS.

                          Comment


                          • I just returned from visiting my immunocompromised brother. I went to Texas via the Atlanta airport. I figure that I got exposed somewhere. I feel ok so far. My nephew is a pilot for Southwest and he says he is extremely busy now. People are traveling. All legs of my flights were at capacity. The Atlanta and Austin airports were as crowded as I have ever seen them. People do not seem to be scared of Delta. People are inconsistent with masking on planes. I will not travel via plane until this gets better controlled. I get bloodwork for the Pfizer study drawn next week. I am planning to go to CVS for a booster after that. I got my first pfizer shot on 8/13 last year. I expect my antibody levels are waning.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hatton View Post
                              I just returned from visiting my immunocompromised brother. I went to Texas via the Atlanta airport. I figure that I got exposed somewhere. I feel ok so far. My nephew is a pilot for Southwest and he says he is extremely busy now. People are traveling. All legs of my flights were at capacity. The Atlanta and Austin airports were as crowded as I have ever seen them. People do not seem to be scared of Delta. People are inconsistent with masking on planes. I will not travel via plane until this gets better controlled. I get bloodwork for the Pfizer study drawn next week. I am planning to go to CVS for a booster after that. I got my first pfizer shot on 8/13 last year. I expect my antibody levels are waning.
                              booster with J and J or another pfizer?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hatton View Post
                                I just returned from visiting my immunocompromised brother. I went to Texas via the Atlanta airport. I figure that I got exposed somewhere. I feel ok so far. My nephew is a pilot for Southwest and he says he is extremely busy now. People are traveling. All legs of my flights were at capacity. The Atlanta and Austin airports were as crowded as I have ever seen them. People do not seem to be scared of Delta. People are inconsistent with masking on planes. I will not travel via plane until this gets better controlled. I get bloodwork for the Pfizer study drawn next week. I am planning to go to CVS for a booster after that. I got my first pfizer shot on 8/13 last year. I expect my antibody levels are waning.
                                Hope your brother is making some progress. Very tough situation. My additional hope is the this variant thing doesn't turn into a "wack a mole" thing. This thing seems to mutate rapidly. The targeted vaccine may be a long drawn out conflict. You might be waiting for better control a long time.

                                Best to your family. Stay safe.

                                Comment

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