Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Sampter]

Have you done a study to refute their findings?

I'm sure you can find one. Kinda makes you wonder how people can be so dogmatic positive that their view of masks is accurate when you can find one that says almost anything about them, huh?

That's what I mean, what you linked was not the results of a study. It was an entry in clinicaltrials.gov that they did the study, but no results reported. Clearly you either do not know how to read medical literature or choose not to besides posting exciting headlines.

[billy]

I’m not against masks (where appropriate), but If we’re going to talk stats here, let’s at least compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Texas is 24th in the US in Covid deaths per 100,000 population, while mask wearing states New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts are 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

My point was K82 brought up texas compared to tokyo to say masks dont work. My original reply to it actually said compare NY to tokyo if one was never wearing masks and the other was. Texas doesn't have the commuter density that NY and NJ has, and wasn't an initial hot spot, nor has the nursing home density of those places. So I agree on you need to make the apple to apple comparison. Texas has wide open spaces and some citys, but not a huge subway, bus, packed streets, cabs commuter crowd.
In addition, to make comparisons using mask wearing, compare the deaths after last May/June 2020, when we knew a little more and masking became more commonplace (although still not 100% compliant to make a true comparison)- btw tried googling, couldn't find the answer so if someone has it feel free to post. Masks weren't being worn when the initial wave hit the NE, causing the admissions that led to a majority of the deaths (april for NJ covid):
NJ majority of deaths for 2020 due to all causes(and covid): March-June 2020 was the peak- https://nj.gov/health/chs/documents/..._Residence.pdf

For the record I am not saying you need to mask while surfing. But in a subway, bus or dense public area, and in a hospital or nursing home (vulnerable patients) or in places with poor ventilation, yes I think everyone masking helps and I hope that part continues. K82 we are obviously going to agree to disagree I guess.

[CordMcNally]

*passes by the doorway, stops, looks in, then keeps walking*

[PedsCCM]

Are folks seeing hospitals fill up again? We’ve been fortunate so far and our cases in the Midwest haven’t really accelerated

[jfoxcpacfp]

I admit, I have had it with the mother****ing masks. I can’t wait till I can burn all of them. I’d be delighted if we knew they didn’t work so I never would have to wear one again.

Curious - aren't doctors the most used to wearing masks of almost any segment of the population? I have been surprised at some of the mask-fatigue expressed here. Or maybe I'm simply lumping everyone in with surgeons and PC docs (among others)? Guess rads didn't keep them on before COVID...

[Zaphod]

I admit, I have had it with the mother****ing masks. I can’t wait till I can burn all of them. I’d be delighted if we knew they didn’t work so I never would have to wear one again.

So it’s tempting to glom on to anything that makes it sound like they don’t work or barely do anything, but a mountain of other circumstantial evidence, as well as the tenets of germ theory, make that hard to accept. However, if physicians over a year into the pandemic don’t have a consensus that they’re effective, how much trouble are they worth? When we have excellent vaccines to deploy, the masks are now a ************************ of a squeeze to persuade the public to comply with, especially if they’re imposed regardless of status. Good luck if you’re the CDC or a state/local official trying to sell that to the 4M people who watch Tucker Carlson every night.

I am also and have been for months, and as I mentioned I dont wear one, anywhere, not on the subway in chicago when there either.

That does not mean you have to become crazy otoh.

They never made sense outdoors, in restaurants, etc...but I realize its incredibly hard for most people to think, reason and be nuanced. However, we shouldnt have that problem.

That other people or policies are enacted to solve something and have strange stupid edge cases doesnt make the underlying idea bad your position less crazy.

[CordMcNally]

Are folks seeing hospitals fill up again? We’ve been fortunate so far and our cases in the Midwest haven’t really accelerated

Yes but it’s not solely because of COVID. The biggest issue is nurse staffing. We’re seeing more COVID cases and admitting some but it’s tough to gauge because of the significant nursing shortage and general constipation of hospital throughput.

[CordMcNally]

Curious - aren't doctors the most used to wearing masks of almost any segment of the population? I have been surprised at some of the mask-fatigue expressed here. Or maybe I'm simply lumping everyone in with surgeons and PC docs (among others)? Guess rads didn't keep them on before COVID...

Masks were generally only worn in the OR or for other certain procedures in the ED or hospital. Most docs certainly weren’t used to wearing a mask all day every day. I rarely wore a mask intubating someone unless it was a trauma or they were actively vomiting. I never wore a mask during flu season, either. I’ve never had the flu but I’ve always been vaccinated.

[K82]

Here's an article talking about Sweden and how they have done. Zero deaths now. They never had a mask mandate and their experience with the pandemic was no worse than other countries that did. Clearly there are a lot of variables between countries but it's an interesting data point.

https://fee.org/articles/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/

[Sampter]

It's like when you are at a party and the drunk person is being obnoxious but doesn't have enough insight to realize it. At least they have a good excuse.

[Lithium]

Curious - aren't doctors the most used to wearing masks of almost any segment of the population? I have been surprised at some of the mask-fatigue expressed here. Or maybe I'm simply lumping everyone in with surgeons and PC docs (among others)? Guess rads didn't keep them on before COVID...

As a psychiatrist I never wore them after medical school. It has a negative effect on reading patients’ non verbal communication. I’ve had deaf patients on the unit who weren’t able to attend groups because they’re used to reading lips. But it’s hard for me to go back to wearing masks because I’ve been off work since May and didn’t wear a mask anywhere for anything. I did some extensive traveling this past week and forgot how much it sucked to have to wear a mask for a continuous 5 hour flight, 4 hour train ride, etc. At least at work I could take it off when I was doing notes.

[Hatton]

Curious - aren't doctors the most used to wearing masks of almost any segment of the population? I have been surprised at some of the mask-fatigue expressed here. Or maybe I'm simply lumping everyone in with surgeons and PC docs (among others)? Guess rads didn't keep them on before COVID...

Depends on the field. I always wore a mask with an attached shield. This was primarily to protect myself from HIV and Hep B/C from the blood spatter at delivery and some surgeries.

[artemis]

Are folks seeing hospitals fill up again? We’ve been fortunate so far and our cases in the Midwest haven’t really accelerated

Cases are low here in Omaha, but are rising in the western part of the state where far fewer people have been vaccinated. So we're a bit worried about that, as those hospitals have limited capacity. We could soon be seeing spillover from them (especially after Sturgis).

[MSooner]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed already as I have mostly stayed out of this thread as a the non-medical half of a medical couple, but I really am curious:

How many of you are truly concerned about your kids catching COVID? I ask because I feel like a decent bit of my friends seem terrified. Kids kept home all last year, some not taken out in public until just a few months ago and then only in very specific circumstances. Some still haven't been. They truly aren't going to live their lives normally until their kids are vaxxed and many are refusing to put their kids back in school this fall or seem very upset that there may not be any masking.

All of us got COVID last August. It was almost asymptomatic in 2 of my children and the other two had fevers/congestion/general whininess for a few days. After that, I basically stopped worrying. My husband feels the same way and he is in a pediatric subspecialty. Is there really any evidence to suggests that any of the new variants harm children at a higher rate or that there has ever been a significant threat to children? Truly asking this. At this point, I consider it on par with driving somewhere--there's always the risk of my kids dying in a car accident, but the cost/benefit analysis of forgoing car transportation vs avoiding this risk seems silly.

FWIW, I am vaccinating them ASAP because I will do anything to make this thing less prevalent and a shocking amount of the adults in our community refuse to be vaxxed, so I guess it's up to my 5 year old.

[K82]

It's like when you are at a party and the drunk person is being obnoxious but doesn't have enough insight to realize it. At least they have a good excuse.

I'm sorry if I have offended you. I find it odd that you take offense at my posts pointing out that the efficacy of masks as they have been proscribed across the nation to the general public is far from settled science. And yet, there are those, like you, who seem to consider it so.

As I stated previously, if you aren't interested in my posts, just skip them. Its interesting to me that someone takes the time to berate someone they disagree with, about an issue they say is not worth even talking about, regardring an issue that shouldn't be at all controversial. Very strange.

No one has successfully argued against the points I have made. This virus is mucus and air borne delivered. A surgical mask will help stop mucus and spit. It won't stop air borne virus spread. Common sense practices like keeping a distance, washing hands, not shaking hands will help. There are situations where a mask is very useful, but wearing a mask everywhere is questionable. Why do we as physicians have a hard time coming to grips with this?