Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[HikingDO]

1. We are already at 63% of adults vaccinated, why do you think we won't hit 70-80%, *especially* if there is a uniform public health message encouraging it and warning of the dangers to unvaccinated individuals and society at large until that happens?

2. What aspect of asking adults to wear masks in indoor settings is political?

We plan to vaccinate our daughter in the next month or two but not needing her to be first in line.

So I guess everyone who’s been vaccinated needs to keep wearing masks until you and others get around to vaccinating your kids? Sorry, everyone in my family including my teenager has been vaccinated, so we don’t wear masks unless required by whatever store we’re in. This mask insanity needs to end.

[PedsCCM]

Ok first of all that’s only ages 12-17. Second, that’s for kids testing positive. We know kids generally have minimal symptoms from COVID so this likely overstates the hospitalization rate given the prevalence of disease in the population. It’s selection bias because more significant symptoms likely prompted testing. And Flu testing was/is much more readily available in Pediatrics offices and acute care settings.

I don't think we can really confidently say one way or the other just yet but the current data and my observations have been that COVID's overall pediatric m&m burden is very similar to flu. I would bet the confidence intervals are somewhere in the 0.5 - 1.5x flu M&M. COVID is different in that the severe peds presentations seem more predictable - basically occuring in the same risk groups as adults. Severe flu in kids very often involves secondary bacterial pneumonia and hits a wide range of age groups and demographics. All of that said, even the relatively rare MIS-C and severe COVID are still far more common than serious vaccine side effects so I support vaccinating children.

[ENT Doc]

I don't think we can really confidently say one way or the other just yet but the current data and my observations have been that COVID's overall pediatric m&m burden is very similar to flu. I would bet the confidence intervals are somewhere in the 0.5 - 1.5x flu M&M. COVID is different in that the severe peds presentations seem more predictable - basically occuring in the same risk groups as adults. Severe flu in kids very often involves secondary bacterial pneumonia and hits a wide range of age groups and demographics. All of that said, even the relatively rare MIS-C and severe COVID are still far more common than serious vaccine side effects so I support vaccinating children.

Fair enough. To be clear, I’m not opposed to kids getting vaccinated per se. There does appear to be a declining marginal utility as we get more adults vaccinated but if the benefits outweigh the risks...

[Tim]

So I guess everyone who’s been vaccinated needs to keep wearing masks until you and others get around to vaccinating your kids? Sorry, everyone in my family including my teenager has been vaccinated, so we don’t wear masks unless required by whatever store we’re in. This mask insanity needs to end.

• May 12, 2021: Everyone 12 years old and older

The discussion has focused on the carrot and the stick. The easier you make it, the more procrastination. Just like finances, healthcare has an element of "skin in the game" and "accountability". As long as it is "FREE", some (actually many) people will drag it out. Forget the masks, out of pocket is the most effective motivator.
Sign up by June 15 or July 4 for FREE and $100 a shot is you sign up late? Increasing price each 30 days? Sign up for waivers (medical or otherwise) allowed.

Free testing and free shots were absolutely needed. Put money on the line and some will pay a price. Deadlines work for taxes and credit card payments, need a monetary penalty of some sort. Too bad they didn't consider June 12, 2021 and volumes would have ramped up rather than dropped. The combination of "no more masks"
and "end of FREE" would have at least attempted to ramp up efficiency. This will drag on for years if it is allowed to continue. A sense of urgency is missing is the point.

"Underrepresented populations are a big part of the Biden administration’s focus. And while confidence in COVID-19 vaccines has recently risen within communities of color, a way to keep closing the gap, officials think, is reaching people when they are getting their hair cut or styled." Courtesy of Dr. Jill and Dr. Fauci.

[Kamban]

1. We are already at 63% of adults vaccinated, why do you think we won't hit 70-80%, *especially* if there is a uniform public health message encouraging it and warning of the dangers to unvaccinated individuals and society at large until that happens?

2. What aspect of asking adults to wear masks in indoor settings is political?

We plan to vaccinate our daughter in the next month or two but not needing her to be first in line.

The reality is that we have plateaued in adult vaccination. We might go up slightly over time but trying to wait for 80%+ is a pipe dream. No amount of education, cajoling, freebies or punitive measures will change that.

I have worn masks when it is needed but it is time to say enough is enough. It is uncomfortable and I would rather not do it unless the store or venue mandates it. I still have the mask policy till now in my office. If people want to wear it in all places, outdoors and indoors, go ahead.

You seem to talk the talk so far but why not walk the walk. Why do you want to wait for a month for others to be first in line and get the vaccine and see its side effects before you subject your daughter to it. There are enough vaccines for all 14 year olds to get it today if they want it. You want to use other 14 year old kids as test balloons for vaccination and want your kid to be safe yet you berate the non vaccinated group for refusing to get vaccinated because they have reasons similar to yours to be apprehensive of the vaccination. Like you, I also want to see a 80%+ vaccination rate but am a realist to know it is unlikely to be achieved.

For the record my barely 17 year old daughter got her vaccination 3 weeks after it was approved, on Dec 30th 2020, when we did not even have much knowledge of side effects in adults, let alone 17 year olds. I did not wait to see how other 17 year old kids did with the vaccine.

[NumberWhizMD]

I realize trust for the CDC may be at an all-time low, but haven’t they said that the risk of myocarditis from the vaccination is less than potential risk from long-term effects of covid? I realize that the risk of having long-term side effects from covid mean that one must 1) be infected, and 2) be one of the unlucky few adolescents or pediatric patients who get covid and also have detrimental long-term side effects. I’ve also read that myocarditis risk is highest in 16-19 year old males.

I’m grappling with this right now with my 14 and 12 year old girls. We have plans for traveling to California in several weeks, and then to NYC later this summer. The California trip will be almost exclusively at a resort, but obviously in NYC we will be amidst throngs of people at the museums, in the subways, etc.

Anywho, what would the WCI hive mind do in this circumstance?

My 9YO and 6YO are waiting their turn. For us, I will feel more comfortable traveling with them on a plane once they both get it. To be honest, my bigger hope is that getting the vaccine will keep them IN school. Our youngest had COVID earlier this year, and taking 2 weeks off sucks, especially when she felt fine after 2 days.

[FIREshrink]

I have confidence we'll get to 75% adult uptake because I discuss this with the vaccine hesitant daily. Almost without exception they've been coming along, slowly, over the last four months. Ongoing indoor mask mandate would have accelerated prices and saved lives.

Making outdoors, whoever said such a thing recently? I haven't chosen to wear a mask outdoors since last spring, it's obvious that isn't how covid is contracted. Yet another strawman put up by the anti mask crowd.

Yes you and i are different. I wear shoes and a shirt to the store even if I'd rather not. Add a mask to the list for a few more months, no big deal. Apparently a huge encumbrance to your personal need to express yourself, sad if that is the only way you can do it. But whatever, debate is done, masks are off, i do not suggest we are about to have a surge in covid deaths or hospitalizations, only that 1/3 of the country has no immunity and thus is trapped between a rock and a hard place and for me it is a small sacrifice to make the world safer for my fellow citizens. Tyrrany of the majority, what else is new. Modern America would have lost WWII and quickly, sad the country we have become. All selfish rights, no community responsibility.

[CordMcNally]

Tyrrany of the majority, what else is new. Modern America would have lost WWII and quickly, sad the country we have become. All selfish rights, no community responsibility.

Do you really think it's reasonable to compare an invisible (in the larger sense) enemy to the enemies of WW2? It's much easier to rally against a common enemy. Most people didn't see COVID as a personal enemy and they were right. You're right about the fact we'd lose a war right now but not because of the reasons you're thinking.

[HikingDO]

I have confidence we'll get to 75% adult uptake because I discuss this with the vaccine hesitant daily. Almost without exception they've been coming along, slowly, over the last four months. Ongoing indoor mask mandate would have accelerated prices and saved lives.

Making outdoors, whoever said such a thing recently? I haven't chosen to wear a mask outdoors since last spring, it's obvious that isn't how covid is contracted. Yet another strawman put up by the anti mask crowd.

Yes you and i are different. I wear shoes and a shirt to the store even if I'd rather not. Add a mask to the list for a few more months, no big deal. Apparently a huge encumbrance to your personal need to express yourself, sad if that is the only way you can do it. But whatever, debate is done, masks are off, i do not suggest we are about to have a surge in covid deaths or hospitalizations, only that 1/3 of the country has no immunity and thus is trapped between a rock and a hard place and for me it is a small sacrifice to make the world safer for my fellow citizens. Tyrrany of the majority, what else is new. Modern America would have lost WWII and quickly, sad the country we have become. All selfish rights, no community responsibility.

Selfish rights is expecting the rest of us to wear masks for another couple of months since you want others to have their kids act as guinea pigs with the vaccine while not getting your own child vaccinated. If you want to make a “small sacrifice” for your fellow citizens, get your child vaccinated today. There are plenty of vaccines available. Then we’ll be one person closer to herd immunity. Not sure why can’t see that, but whatever.

[Lithium]

I have confidence we'll get to 75% adult uptake because I discuss this with the vaccine hesitant daily. Almost without exception they've been coming along, slowly, over the last four months. Ongoing indoor mask mandate would have accelerated prices and saved lives.

Making outdoors, whoever said such a thing recently? I haven't chosen to wear a mask outdoors since last spring, it's obvious that isn't how covid is contracted. Yet another strawman put up by the anti mask crowd.

Yes you and i are different. I wear shoes and a shirt to the store even if I'd rather not. Add a mask to the list for a few more months, no big deal. Apparently a huge encumbrance to your personal need to express yourself, sad if that is the only way you can do it. But whatever, debate is done, masks are off, i do not suggest we are about to have a surge in covid deaths or hospitalizations, only that 1/3 of the country has no immunity and thus is trapped between a rock and a hard place and for me it is a small sacrifice to make the world safer for my fellow citizens. Tyrrany of the majority, what else is new. Modern America would have lost WWII and quickly, sad the country we have become. All selfish rights, no community responsibility.

Wearing masks is not like wearing shirts and shoes. We aren’t salamanders. We’re social animals that rely enormously on non-verbal cues for communication. When someone is wearing a mask, you can only really tell basic characteristics about them, such as their height, race, sex, whether they’re wearing a Trump hat or BLM shirt, etc. There’s no point in smiling at someone if they don’t notice it. If you say good morning, someone with hearing impairment may not even be able to understand you that well.

Maybe ongoing mask mandates save some lives, but at what cost? I just think that the pandemic has deepened some preexisting fissures in this country, and having us all disappear from society and cover our faces for the past year certainly hasn’t helped. Obviously the masks are a PITA too, especially when it’s 95+ degrees outside.

[Tim]

"Apparently a huge encumbrance to your personal need to express yourself, sad if that is the only way you can do it. But whatever, debate is done, masks are off, i do not suggest we are about to have a surge in covid deaths or hospitalizations,"
The reality is that "Masks" was adopted as a slogan for mandates. Not based upon science. Yes, the politics is actually symbolic of much more that Covid. Back to the political aspects rather than any focus on the pandemic. Say it enough times does not make it accurate. Masks are gone because the science did not support it. By the way, people are traveling and having bbq's. Tell me the science behind banning fireworks at Mt Rushmore. Tempted to buy some M-80's and travel, just to spite the idiotic messaging. Passive aggressive approach is not helpful nor based on science. Just political messaging.

[Huggy]

Curious of your thoughts:

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine. He is fully vaccinated (Pfizer) and just discovered that his coworker whom he was working with in a small office all day yesterday tested positive for COVID this morning. They were both unmasked and his coworker was apparently not vaccinated. He has a 5 month old at home and is wondering whether or not he should quarantine from his child for the time being. He currently has no symptoms. Mother of the child is also fully vaccinated.

[CordMcNally]

Curious of your thoughts:

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine. He is fully vaccinated (Pfizer) and just discovered that his coworker whom he was working with in a small office all day yesterday tested positive for COVID this morning. They were both unmasked and his coworker was apparently not vaccinated. He has a 5 month old at home and is wondering whether or not he should quarantine from his child for the time being. He currently has no symptoms. Mother of the child is also fully vaccinated.

No. But if the child is fussy and he wants a break if the child isn't sleeping through the night then yes.

[billy]

Per guidelines if vaccinated, exposed, and not exhibiting symptoms no need to quarantine. My job didn't even want to test me after I easily spent most of the 72 hrs unmasked with my wife before she tested positive. If he wants for peace of mind he can test himself after a few days (I did), but a vaccinated, asymptomatic person spreading COVID would be rare. Anectodally my hospital had a vaccinated asymptomatic nurse who tested positive after her unvaccinated husband had COVID, she was sent home for a week to quarantine but no one who was around her after her exposure tested positive. Forgot about her in my previous post.

Its unfortunate your friend has to stress out bc an unvaxxed person didnt wear a mask indoors, but these will become more frequent occurrences unfortunately.

[Tim]

“Houston Methodist Hospital on Tuesday suspended 178 employees without pay for 14 days for failing to comply with its COVID-19 vaccine requirement.”

Facing termination in two weeks. 27 have one dose.