Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Sundance]

Agree, and haven't vaccinated 14 yr old daughter, yet... But probably will assuming myocarditis turns out rare and no other side effects turn up.

Wait after lamenting how we aren’t vaccinating the less than 12 crowd we now find out you haven’t vaccinated your 14 year old??? Also We’re not hitting 70-80% adults vaccinated in this country so what’s the point of throwing out random numbers. Time to move on.

Continuing this nonsense will just alienate the 60% who have zero desire to be vaccinated. Let’s be reasonable and do a better job of making this less political and reach out to understand and educate the population the best we can.. after that it’s on them.

[billy]

So...segregation?

Had it with smokers and non smokers in restaurants (at least in NYC area pre early 2000s) planes (pre 90s?) trains etc. Funny in ny did not hear any complaints until they said no smoking whatsoever in restaurant/bars. Similar rebuttals when they said no more smoking at all in public indoor places back then- if you are afraid of second hand smoke stay home. It'll cost businesses money. Discriminates against smokers. But for restaurants specifically or stadiums, trains I think its a good idea- your whole group's vaccinated sit to the left, unvaccinated right. Mix and matched group? go with the unvaxxed. Second train car is a vaxxed car. No special treatment on either side. Can allow those immunocompromised a higher level of safety without requiring masks for all.

Also (catching up on previous posts), I doubt anyone who is saying masks should've been mandated longer are also saying lock down should be enforced longer- 2 different issues/actions. At least I'm not. Masks on the infected help prevent spread and unfortunately people spread a day before being symptomatic with this stupid disease. In areas of mass populations congregating together inside (subways, public buses) I do not think asking all to mask is unreasonable. That does not mean I am advocating for a lockdown of any kind.

Anecdotally I know of 2 immunocompromised people getting COVID despite being vaccinated and masked. At what point to we consider testing for antibodies in the more vulnerable groups, and what would the threshold for a booster shot be? No point in testing if you dont know what to do with the results.

Re:kids- It'll be interesting to see what the long term data on covid infection effects vs vaccine effects are. Unfortunately too early to tell. I grew up with chicken pox parties and missed the vaccine by quite a few years. If/when I get shingles or meningitis it'll suck knowing that if I was born a few years later I wouldnt be at risk for it.

[pulmdoc]

He also had several "diatribes" last summer which detailed, in depth, with first-hand accounts and sources, why it was quite likely that this all started in a lab. Then of course was widely criticized for conspiracy theory, xenophobia, racism, blah blah blah. Shouted down, and promptly swept under the rug by the entire national media.

Seems now that he was way ahead of the curve. Wouldn't be the first time.

Doesn't matter how you feel about the person making the argument. The argument either stands on its own, or it doesn't.

It didn't then and it doesn't now.

[FIREshrink]

Wait after lamenting how we aren’t vaccinating the less than 12 crowd we now find out you haven’t vaccinated your 14 year old??? Also We’re not hitting 70-80% adults vaccinated in this country so what’s the point of throwing out random numbers. Time to move on.

Continuing this nonsense will just alienate the 60% who have zero desire to be vaccinated. Let’s be reasonable and do a better job of making this less political and reach out to understand and educate the population the best we can.. after that it’s on them.

1. We are already at 63% of adults vaccinated, why do you think we won't hit 70-80%, *especially* if there is a uniform public health message encouraging it and warning of the dangers to unvaccinated individuals and society at large until that happens?

2. What aspect of asking adults to wear masks in indoor settings is political?

We plan to vaccinate our daughter in the next month or two but not needing her to be first in line.

[pulmdoc]

I realize trust for the CDC may be at an all-time low, but haven’t they said that the risk of myocarditis from the vaccination is less than potential risk from long-term effects of covid? I realize that the risk of having long-term side effects from covid mean that one must 1) be infected, and 2) be one of the unlucky few adolescents or pediatric patients who get covid and also have detrimental long-term side effects. I’ve also read that myocarditis risk is highest in 16-19 year old males.

I’m grappling with this right now with my 14 and 12 year old girls. We have plans for traveling to California in several weeks, and then to NYC later this summer. The California trip will be almost exclusively at a resort, but obviously in NYC we will be amidst throngs of people at the museums, in the subways, etc.

Anywho, what would the WCI hive mind do in this circumstance?

I advised my sister to get my 15 year old nephews vaccinated as soon as Pfizer vaccine was approved, which she did. My own kids are in the 2-12 range; if safety and efficacy are similar to the 12-16 data, I plan to get them vaccinated ASAP as well.

The risk of lifethreatening illness in children is dramatically less than adults, but its still significantly higher than influenza. The COVID mRNA vaccines are significantly more effective than yearly influenza vaccines and COVID is significantly more contagious than influenza. Therefore, anybody who thinks pediatric influenza vaccination is a good idea (which I do) should likewise conclude that pediatric COVID vaccination is a fantastic idea.

[CordMcNally]

Anecdotally I know of 2 immunocompromised people getting COVID despite being vaccinated and masked. At what point to we consider testing for antibodies in the more vulnerable groups, and what would the threshold for a booster shot be? No point in testing if you dont know what to do with the results.

What was the severity of their illness?

[ENT Doc]

I advised my sister to get my 15 year old nephews vaccinated as soon as Pfizer vaccine was approved, which she did. My own kids are in the 2-12 range; if safety and efficacy are similar to the 12-16 data, I plan to get them vaccinated ASAP as well.

The risk of lifethreatening illness in children is dramatically less than adults, but its still significantly higher than influenza. The COVID mRNA vaccines are significantly more effective than yearly influenza vaccines and COVID is significantly more contagious than influenza. Therefore, anybody who thinks pediatric influenza vaccination is a good idea (which I do) should likewise conclude that pediatric COVID vaccination is a fantastic idea.

What information are you using to assert that life threatening illness with COVID is worse than the Flu for kids?

[billy]

What was the severity of their illness?

One (my wife) received monoclonal antibodies on day 4- so COVID was stopped in its tracks (I think I posted earlier in this thread about it). Unfortunately COVID or the antibody infusion also triggered a hepatitis like picture- worsening ascites over next 3 weeks requiring a tap. But with chemo on board its hard to truly point the finger, just timing wise it was right after the first chemo after COVID so not unreasonable to blame the disease processes tipping her liver over the edge. She's been on the same chemo regiment for ~ a year now with no previous issues.

Other immunocompromised person was able to stay home; recovered but dont know details.

And the one friend with a competent immune system who caught covid post vaccine - just a cold like thing for a few days, but then loss of smell for ~2-3 weeks.

[FIREshrink]

What information are you using to assert that life threatening illness with COVID is worse than the Flu for kids?

CDC shows hospitalization rate per 100,000 is 2-3x peak flu season rate. There are some legitimate qualms about the way that data has been reported but there it is.

[ENT Doc]

CDC shows hospitalization rate per 100,000 is 2-3x peak flu season rate. There are some legitimate qualms about the way that data has been reported but there it is.

Ok first of all that’s only ages 12-17. Second, that’s for kids testing positive. We know kids generally have minimal symptoms from COVID so this likely overstates the hospitalization rate given the prevalence of disease in the population. It’s selection bias because more significant symptoms likely prompted testing. And Flu testing was/is much more readily available in Pediatrics offices and acute care settings.

[Perry Ict]

Let’s be reasonable and do a better job of making this less political and reach out to understand and educate the population the best we can.. after that it’s on them.

I agree, I think we should have some sympathy for those who are less trusting of vaccinations and other recommendations, especially after all the screw-ups of the various "experts" who often contradicted themselves, or were overtly political, and/or in some cases were flat out wrong.

I like the idea of a reward incentive for vaccination - definitely not on board with some of the punitive ideas being mentioned though.

[Perry Ict]

It might be a bad idea for everybody. I haven't heard many specifics about this, but concentrating the people at highest likelihood of carrying, transmitting and acquiring the virus in a particular area seems like a bad idea from a population standpoint. Not to mention they're the group at risk for more serious illness. If the goal is to cause COVID admissions this appears to be a good way to do it.

Right, and on top of all of that, it just seems incredibly unethical. Many of the unvaccinated are the least fortunate among us.

Those types of ideas seem more based in escalating a culture war than anything aimed at constructively managing a pandemic. Perhaps trying to build more trust is a better approach.

[Lordosis]

I went to a minor league baseball game recently and they had vaccinated and unvaccinated sections. I took my seven-year-old. Children under 12 were allowed to sit in the vaccinated section if all the adults were vaccinated. The unvactionated section maintained distancing and I toyed with the idea of choosing to sit there just because it would be more spread out. However with the stadium only being a quarter full we had a whole row to ourselves anyway.

A regional outdoor concert Hall is having fully vaccinated concerts this summer. Not only do they run vaccine clinics in off hours but they will require proof of vaccination prior to entry for any of their shows. They are also putting on free shows for vaccinated individuals. The free shows look pretty craptacular local talent stuff but still it is a nice gesture. There is quite the uproar about it being discriminatory and whatnot on the usual social media platforms. I guess I forgot that seeing Justin Timberlake was one of our inalienable rights.

[Tangler]

One (my wife) received monoclonal antibodies on day 4- so COVID was stopped in its tracks (I think I posted earlier in this thread about it). Unfortunately COVID or the antibody infusion also triggered a hepatitis like picture- worsening ascites over next 3 weeks requiring a tap. But with chemo on board its hard to truly point the finger, just timing wise it was right after the first chemo after COVID so not unreasonable to blame the disease processes tipping her liver over the edge. She's been on the same chemo regiment for ~ a year now with no previous issues.

Other immunocompromised person was able to stay home; recovered but dont know details.

And the one friend with a competent immune system who caught covid post vaccine - just a cold like thing for a few days, but then loss of smell for ~2-3 weeks.

yikes! hang in there! Sorry you are going through all that.

[Tim]

Right, and on top of all of that, it just seems incredibly unethical. Many of the unvaccinated are the least fortunate among us.

Those types of ideas seem more based in escalating a culture war than anything aimed at constructively managing a pandemic. Perhaps trying to build more trust is a better approach.

I was informed today a confirmation that a BIL actually got fully vaccinated. I did have several conversations and he was simply very paranoid about shots. ANY shots.

I had sent a text telling him a case of beer was coming his way when he confirmed he was fully vaccinated. Good intents, more humorous than a reward. Guess what? I was told to never mention the vaccine or beer. Pressure was coming from many directions. It was close enough that he told my wife to thank me for understanding his phobia. But, stuff anything else related to vaccines. Polite way of saying he has reached a limit. Don’t mention it again.

This is is extremely unusual but.vaccines and shots themselves are a problem for many.

Which excuse would they use? Not sure about the Covid vaccines or terrified of a shot? It’s embarrassing. Probably more common than expected.