Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Panscan]

This is a tired strawman some keep putting up that I've never never claimed is a goal. Look upthread, I've clearly celebrated our progress and near victory, and in another forum I'm begging vaccinated people to move on with their lives. My point is simply they widespread mask wearing is not a huge imposition and a reasonable public health behavior when 1/3 of Americans don't yet have immunity to a disease that has killed 600,000 people in sixteen months.

That's a pretty twisted way to put it when we are clearly dramatically below the peak and continue to decrease. So should we wear masks in 5 years if COVID is completely gone, bc it killed millions worldwide 5 years ago? It's unfortunate it happened of course but at some point we will have to stop wearing masks and to be frank a large portion of the country has already done so.

Metric or progress wise, when would you be ok with that? After all children can be vaccinated?

[CordMcNally]

The data for children doesn't really seem concerning and the "impending doom" claimed by the CDC months ago has clearly not materialized as numbers continue to decrease.

That's one thing I've noticed. I haven't seen any more of those 'potential super spreader event' headlines in a while now. I wonder what their number for events that never materialized was where they just decided to give up on that angle.

[FIREshrink]

That's a pretty twisted way to put it when we are clearly dramatically below the peak and continue to decrease. So should we wear masks in 5 years if COVID is completely gone, bc it killed millions worldwide 5 years ago? It's unfortunate it happened of course but at some point we will have to stop wearing masks and to be frank a large portion of the country has already done so.

Metric or progress wise, when would you be ok with that? After all children can be vaccinated?

I think getting 70-80% of adults vaccinated, plus availability of a pediatric vaccine for a few months should do the trick. Encouraging or requiring masking in public indoor spaces through the summer probably would have helped boost the first number faster. But I hope we'll hit the above sometime in early winter, ie before the Christmas holidays.

[Panscan]

cost/benefit a bit different in kids too. I got it first possible time but not sure I would sign my kid up

[FIREshrink]

cost/benefit a bit different in kids too. I got it first possible time but not sure I would sign my kid up

Agree, and haven't vaccinated 14 yr old daughter, yet... But probably will assuming myocarditis turns out rare and no other side effects turn up.

[VagabondMD]

My state has two or three of the current top counties with new active COVID cases. These are small, rural counties, far from the population centers, whose inhabitants are unlikely to interact with me or anyone I know. As I said from the beginning, the negative externalities of not following basic pubic health protocols would eventually accrue almost exclusively to those who did not mask/vaccinate or otherwise take the pandemic seriously. Going forward, the outbreaks are going to be in these smaller communities, and the rest of us can go about our lives.

That's the thing about the vaccination percentage data (which is horribly flawed as the numerator is where you were vaccinated, and the denominator is where you live). I expect that my county's vaccination rate is higher than what is listed on the website (46%, at least one dose). I can honestly say that I do not know a single adult friend, relative, neighbor or colleague who is eligible for the vaccine who was not vaccinated by the end of March. People were driving across the state, to other states, line-jumping in with various schemes, etc. to get vaccinated. In the left-leaning municipality in which I live, with lots of affluent professional and business people, executives, professors, doctors, lawyers, business owners, bankers, investment professionals, trust fund babies, retirees, etc., I would be shocked if the vaccination rate were under 90%. We are going to a graduation party tonight, and it will likely be 100% of the guests.

Despite this, I still wear a mask in some settings even when not required (like the grocery store) and expect to fly with a mask indefinitely. My tolerance for being shoulder-to-shoulder with strangers is lower than before, already declining before the pandemic as I no longer enjoyed much going to MLB/NFL games or large concerts.

[Tim]

Let's start with the definition of "herd immunity"
Vaccinated + protection from previous infection + natural immunity = herd immunity

Now, if you are vaccinated you have protection, let's have a definition for "requiring a vaccination" that has absolutely no impact on you. It does not seem like you have legal standing to require any action from someone else.

Any real evidence that previously infected don't have immunity?

We have over 300m vaccines shots in the arm and statistically the vaccine is safer than any potential side effects.Vaccines are safe and work.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

Funny suggestion: If anyone wants to avoid Covid get vaccinated. Make your own personal decision. The war is over, stop fighting the last war. There is no data to support any other conclusion. Yes, local health departments easily can test and contact trace. Employer? Easy, make the unvaccinated wear N-95's and wash with disinfectant every hour. Call it an "artificial disability" and accommodate.Life goes on, give the politics a rest.

It is ridiculous to shut down fire works for the Fourth because of Covid. Move on and do something productive.

[HikingDO]

So now it’s become that we can’t return to normal society because we haven’t vaccinated 8 year olds? That’s the thing with covid. Even intelligent people have just lost their minds...

The goalposts have now been moved back so far that they’re now out of the stadium. It’s gotten ridiculous. But hey, Fireshrink says just a few more months, so all is good, right?

[MaxPower]

Agree, and haven't vaccinated 14 yr old daughter, yet... But probably will assuming myocarditis turns out rare and no other side effects turn up.

I realize trust for the CDC may be at an all-time low, but haven’t they said that the risk of myocarditis from the vaccination is less than potential risk from long-term effects of covid? I realize that the risk of having long-term side effects from covid mean that one must 1) be infected, and 2) be one of the unlucky few adolescents or pediatric patients who get covid and also have detrimental long-term side effects. I’ve also read that myocarditis risk is highest in 16-19 year old males.

I’m grappling with this right now with my 14 and 12 year old girls. We have plans for traveling to California in several weeks, and then to NYC later this summer. The California trip will be almost exclusively at a resort, but obviously in NYC we will be amidst throngs of people at the museums, in the subways, etc.

Anywho, what would the WCI hive mind do in this circumstance?

[Lordosis]

I realize trust for the CDC may be at an all-time low, but haven’t they said that the risk of myocarditis from the vaccination is less than potential risk from long-term effects of covid? I realize that the risk of having long-term side effects from covid mean that one must 1) be infected, and 2) be one of the unlucky few adolescents or pediatric patients who get covid and also have detrimental long-term side effects. I’ve also read that myocarditis risk is highest in 16-19 year old males.

I’m grappling with this right now with my 14 and 12 year old girls. We have plans for traveling to California in several weeks, and then to NYC later this summer. The California trip will be almost exclusively at a resort, but obviously in NYC we will be amidst throngs of people at the museums, in the subways, etc.

Anywho, what would the WCI hive mind do in this circumstance?

As soon as it is available we plan to give it to our 2,4,4,7 year olds. Enough of this covid nonsense. Get vaccinated and move on.

[FIREshrink]

I realize trust for the CDC may be at an all-time low, but haven’t they said that the risk of myocarditis from the vaccination is less than potential risk from long-term effects of covid? I realize that the risk of having long-term side effects from covid mean that one must 1) be infected, and 2) be one of the unlucky few adolescents or pediatric patients who get covid and also have detrimental long-term side effects. I’ve also read that myocarditis risk is highest in 16-19 year old males.

I’m grappling with this right now with my 14 and 12 year old girls. We have plans for traveling to California in several weeks, and then to NYC later this summer. The California trip will be almost exclusively at a resort, but obviously in NYC we will be amidst throngs of people at the museums, in the subways, etc.

Anywho, what would the WCI hive mind do in this circumstance?

That data you reference is from Israel... But Israel hasn't approved for under 16 so what they're really saying is the risk is highest in their youngest vaccine recipients. That's why we want to see US data for 12-16 before proceeding. But my sense is myocarditis is pretty rare or we would be hearing about tens of thousands of cases already.

[MaxPower]

As soon as it is available we plan to give it to our 2,4,4,7 year olds. Enough of this covid nonsense. Get vaccinated and move on.

That’s what I’ve been leaning towards. We have them scheduled for June 14.

[bovie]

It sounds like your politics are influencing your reading of the data. Those who can't be vaccinated include all children 11 and under and many adults with various immunocompromised conditions and some very old and sick. Preliminary data also shows a number of vaccinated adults with autoimmune disorders seem to mount a poor immune response and are probably still at risk of severe disease. This all adds up to 1/3 or so of the population.

Children under 11 have essentially zero risk of serious symptomatic infection, and only a slightly higher risk of transmitting to others. Regarding immunocompromised, very sick, and very old--COVID is just one of many risks they face. Should we try to eliminate all of them?

[bovie]

Anyone else think splitting into vaccinated and unvaccinated at large events is a bad idea?

So...segregation?

[bovie]

I still wear my mask mainly for optics even in places its not required

So you know the data, and explicitly choose to act in opposition to it? Why? This makes things worse, not better.