Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[bovie]

I think you’re proving my point. Why let it get to the point where that is even on the table? Mask mandates and business closures may not be good policy but we can’t rely on our politicians to execute good policy.

No I'm making a separate point that those should not be on the table regardless, irrespective of where anything goes from here. And in terms of bearing the responsibility for such a decision that you alluded to, it would simply be on the fool that implemented the policy.

[FIREshrink]

I think propagate is probably not the correct term since cases have been going down as everything has been opening up more and more. I have no doubt that not everyone walking around unmasked is vaccinated the same way I have no doubt that not everyone wearing a mask is unvaccinated. Different people have different risk tolerances. We can't take all risks out of everyday life for everyone. If you deem yourself high risk then wear all the masks you want or don't go out in public. The US is opening back up and this time politics can't stop it.

Cases among the unvaccinated are still quite high, about 30/100,000 per day. Because the number of unvaccinated is shrinking daily the overall rate trends down, but that is no help to those who can't be vaccinated or have a predictably poor response. About 1/3 of all Americans still have no immunity.

I'm not opposed to opening up, data suggests this is being done safely. But don't minimize the risks that continue for tens of millions of Americans, nor the benefits that a small communal sacrifice like widespread masking can make. It's not asking much despite shrill cries about tyranny and the Holocaust from a certain delusional set.

[Sundance]

Cases among the unvaccinated are still quite high, about 30/100,000 per day. Because the number of unvaccinated is shrinking daily the overall rate trends down, but that is no help to those who can't be vaccinated or have a predictably poor response. About 1/3 of all Americans still have no immunity.

I'm not opposed to opening up, data suggests this is being done safely. But don't minimize the risks that continue for tens of millions of Americans, nor the benefits that a small communal sacrifice like widespread masking can make. It's not asking much despite shrill cries about tyranny and the Holocaust from a certain delusional set.

Anyone can be vaccinated if they so choose and not sure who has a “predictably poor response” but we need to move on... otherwise policies will continue to negatively impact the ones who are struggling most through this (low SES students who are still not going to school or parents not able to work because of lack of child care).

It’s beyond silly at this point. Move on.

[HikingDO]

Cases among the unvaccinated are still quite high, about 30/100,000 per day. Because the number of unvaccinated is shrinking daily the overall rate trends down, but that is no help to those who can't be vaccinated or have a predictably poor response. About 1/3 of all Americans still have no immunity.

I'm not opposed to opening up, data suggests this is being done safely. But don't minimize the risks that continue for tens of millions of Americans, nor the benefits that a small communal sacrifice like widespread masking can make. It's not asking much despite shrill cries about tyranny and the Holocaust from a certain delusional set.

Yea, let’s continue to lock down and wear masks indefinitely until every American can be convinced to spend an hour away from watching Netflix to get a vaccine. Come on, there are now more vaccines than people who want them, so if you choose to not get vaccinated at this point, it’s on you.

[FIREshrink]

It sounds like your politics are influencing your reading of the data. Those who can't be vaccinated include all children 11 and under and many adults with various immunocompromised conditions and some very old and sick. Preliminary data also shows a number of vaccinated adults with autoimmune disorders seem to mount a poor immune response and are probably still at risk of severe disease. This all adds up to 1/3 or so of the population.

But I get it. HikingDO has minimized the pandemic and criticized the shared societal response to it from the beginning. You have your biases, I have mine. I just don't think mask wearing a few months longer is a very big ask and if modeled/encouraged would probably save lives.

[Lordosis]

Anyone else think splitting into vaccinated and unvaccinated at large events is a bad idea?

I mean it works for me but seems like a bad idea for the unvaccinated.

I have seen this happening at sporting events, concerts, and churches.

Also the majority of the people who are not vaccinated at this point are those who choose not to be. They overlap a lot with non mask people.

[CordMcNally]

It sounds like your politics are influencing your reading of the data. Those who can't be vaccinated include all children 11 and under and many adults with various immunocompromised conditions and some very old and sick. Preliminary data also shows a number of vaccinated adults with autoimmune disorders seem to mount a poor immune response and are probably still at risk of severe disease. This all adds up to 1/3 or so of the population.

But I get it. HikingDO has minimized the pandemic and criticized the shared societal response to it from the beginning. You have your biases, I have mine. I just don't think mask wearing a few months longer is a very big ask and if modeled/encouraged would probably save lives.

We’ve done a ‘shared societal response’ for basically over a year and wrecked millions of lives in the process. Children still do remarkably well against the virus and the old and very sick likely aren’t out in public or probably shouldn’t be or likely even can’t. How many people have a true autoimmune disorder that don’t amount an appropriate response? My guess is very few.

Look at that. Instead of ‘just 2 more weeks’ it’s ‘just a few more months’. Is that to give the companies enough time to study the vaccine for the children under 11 who do incredibly well against the virus? Is that to give the old and sick enough time to die in some other way? Is that to give those who apparently mount a poor response an extra few months to continue not to mount a response? If these people are worried about getting sick then they need to continue to wear masks and not go to mass gatherings. Society doesn’t need to stop again to wait for people who will never catch up.

[Rando]

Anyone else think splitting into vaccinated and unvaccinated at large events is a bad idea?

I mean it works for me but seems like a bad idea for the unvaccinated.

It might be a bad idea for everybody. I haven't heard many specifics about this, but concentrating the people at highest likelihood of carrying, transmitting and acquiring the virus in a particular area seems like a bad idea from a population standpoint. Not to mention they're the group at risk for more serious illness. If the goal is to cause COVID admissions this appears to be a good way to do it.

I'd have to think it through but it seems like this would increase R0 for the crowd as a whole as compared to interspersing vaccinated and unvaccinated.

[Sundance]

So now it’s become that we can’t return to normal society because we haven’t vaccinated 8 year olds? That’s the thing with covid. Even intelligent people have just lost their minds...

[CordMcNally]

So now it’s become that we can’t return to normal society because we haven’t vaccinated 8 year olds? That’s the thing with covid. Even intelligent people have just lost their minds...

It's never good enough. Never.

[Panscan]

Constantly shifting goalposts. The problem is there can't be rational debate about it, if you think we shouldn't all shelter in our homes you're anti-scientific and compared to the people who stormed capital.

[Panscan]

It sounds like your politics are influencing your reading of the data. Those who can't be vaccinated include all children 11 and under and many adults with various immunocompromised conditions and some very old and sick. Preliminary data also shows a number of vaccinated adults with autoimmune disorders seem to mount a poor immune response and are probably still at risk of severe disease. This all adds up to 1/3 or so of the population.

But I get it. HikingDO has minimized the pandemic and criticized the shared societal response to it from the beginning. You have your biases, I have mine. I just don't think mask wearing a few months longer is a very big ask and if modeled/encouraged would probably save lives.

I still wear my mask mainly for optics even in places its not required but there's probably very little marginal efficacy for masks when we have more vaccines than we know what to do with for the susceptible population. It's like bailing water out of a sinking ship with a dixie cup while you have a plug that will exactly fit the hole. The data for children doesn't really seem concerning and the "impending doom" claimed by the CDC months ago has clearly not materialized as numbers continue to decrease. It's funny how none of the maximizers seem to acknowledge that. Where is the acknowledgment of the insane progress we have made? All the trends are basically at the lowest since early April 2020

[Hatton]

If we make 0 deaths the goal then we need to stop driving cars.

[FIREshrink]

If we make 0 deaths the goal then we need to stop driving cars.

This is a tired strawman some keep putting up that I've never never claimed is a goal. Look upthread, I've clearly celebrated our progress and near victory, and in another forum I'm begging vaccinated people to move on with their lives. My point is simply they widespread mask wearing is not a huge imposition and a reasonable public health behavior when 1/3 of Americans don't yet have immunity to a disease that has killed 600,000 people in sixteen months.

[Hatton]

This is a tired strawman some keep putting up that I've never never claimed is a goal. Look upthread, I've clearly celebrated our progress and near victory, and in another forum I'm begging vaccinated people to move on with their lives. My point is simply they widespread mask wearing is not a huge imposition and a reasonable public health behavior when 1/3 of Americans don't yet have immunity to a disease that has killed 600,000 people in sixteen months.

I was not referring to you specifically.