Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[CordMcNally]

Don't know if we know but it was obviously a possibility from the beginning. That isn't the same as claiming we know, which is what some did/have done.

Clearly burden of proof is now on China to show good faith transparency, highly unlikely they will do that, leaves us at an impasse unless we have other Intel.

The WHO came out and said it was 'highly unlikely', Facebook banned posts about the lab leak theory and the virus being man made, and Fauci also made statements similar to the WHO at the time. They completely dismissed it publicly which I think is what is making people even more upset now. So many things were botched with the handling of this.

[Tim]

The WHO came out and said it was 'highly unlikely', Facebook banned posts about the lab leak theory and the virus being man made, and Fauci also made statements similar to the WHO at the time. They completely dismissed it publicly which I think is what is making people even more upset now. So many things were botched with the handling of this.

“Clearly burden of proof is now on China to show good faith transparency, highly unlikely they will do that, leaves us at an impasse unless we have other Intel.”

What really really pissed me off is the apparent complicity of people and organizations in aiding and abetting and obstructing and covering up a factual basis of reaching any conclusion.
The circumstantial evidence has not changed. If it is so strong now, then “clearly the burden of proof “ has shifted, it’s not an impasse, China and people and organizations need to be held accountable. Politics or profit or power doesn’t change the actions that intentionally contributed to this “crime against humanity”. This was not mistakes in judgement. Intentional actions occurred. Plausible deniability is not an impass for China or those that participated in the organized coverup and obstruction.

Ready for another pandemic? Just keep doing what we have been doing. No need to worry about climate change. Society can use “impasse” as an excuse. Ahh the innocence of childhood, bad things and people exist. Reality is some have power and participated.

[StateOfMyHead]

The WHO came out and said it was 'highly unlikely', Facebook banned posts about the lab leak theory and the virus being man made, and Fauci also made statements similar to the WHO at the time. They completely dismissed it publicly which I think is what is making people even more upset now. So many things were botched with the handling of this.

But did people in our profession actually buy this? In all fairness it may have been a reasonable tactic to reduce hate and conspiracy theories during a time when mass hysteria was a real possibility. Deal with the cause later after focusing energy on halting the spread sounds reasonable.

[CordMcNally]

But did people in our profession actually buy this? In all fairness it may have been a reasonable tactic to reduce hate and conspiracy theories during a time when mass hysteria was a real possibility. Deal with the cause later after focusing energy on halting the spread sounds reasonable.

I'm sure some did. I guess I don't see how suppressing information related to a possible lab leak and blaming it on a wet market helps reduce hate or stereotypes. Dealing with the cause and working on reducing transmission are two separate issues that can be worked on together. Besides, if you want to deal with the cause you shouldn't come out and make statements that are misleading and incorrect. Also, the people who mentioned a lab leak or it being man made were the ones being called conspiracy theorists. If I remember right, I believe there was a very controversial (some called xenophobic) travel ban put into place with regards to China. It's an embarrassment all around and the WHO has completely lost any shred of credibility that they had.

[Tim]

But did people in our profession actually buy this? In all fairness it may have been a reasonable tactic to reduce hate and conspiracy theories during a time when mass hysteria was a real possibility. Deal with the cause later after focusing energy on halting the spread sounds reasonable.

The rhetoric of "hate and conspiracy" seems to actually deflect from the facts. That is the narrative. Does the profession really buy into the hate and conspiracy narrative? More likely political, profit and power. The "best efforts" were not actual professional opinions. Yes there were unknowns and reasonable debates of the cost/benefits of halting the spread. Hard choices to be made.

• Lower the curve
• Treatments
• Vaccines

Nothing else really made a dent. Trump didn't do it. The office of the president did. "Hysteria" and "hate" and "conspiracy" are diversions. No impact. Did not cause or save any damage. Zilch.

[StateOfMyHead]

The rhetoric of "hate and conspiracy" seems to actually deflect from the facts. That is the narrative. Does the profession really buy into the hate and conspiracy narrative? More likely political, profit and power. The "best efforts" were not actual professional opinions. Yes there were unknowns and reasonable debates of the cost/benefits of halting the spread. Hard choices to be made.

• Lower the curve
• Treatments
• Vaccines

Nothing else really made a dent. Trump didn't do it. The office of the president did. "Hysteria" and "hate" and "conspiracy" are diversions. No impact. Did not cause or save any damage. Zilch.

Yup, lower the curve, treatments and vaccines are where my focus was in the beginning. No need to divert attention by getting into a pissing match with China's government over whether lab or not. IDK no easy answers even in hindsight.

[Tim]

Yup, lower the curve, treatments and vaccines are where my focus was in the beginning. No need to divert attention by getting into a pissing match with China's government over whether lab or not. IDK no easy answers even in hindsight.

No reason for a pissing match. The problem is not with the profession or with anyone's preferences for government. The problem is some people are and have been morally and ethically failures. Intentional acts that have caused death and great human suffering intentionally for their own purposes. These were not "innocent mistakes", but calculated choices that resulted in the greatest disaster and chaos most of us have ever experienced. Some people simply need to tell the truth. What were you thinking? I don't buy the "I don't remember". There should be a heavy price to pay. Not for style or judgement, actions or inaction.

[StarTrekDoc]

Local endocrinologist seeing “several” post covid vacc cases of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. Not sure if all manufacturers. Anyone seeing this?

how about the post covid vacc myocarditis?

I have a patient experience profound thyroiditis with covid back in Jan. TSH suppressed 0.01 FT4 9.5; - SVT -- 50s Male. -- hasn't bottomed out quite yet. TSH nl so far.

[Shant]

Re the lab leak hypothesis, do not conflate more noise with more evidence. The cold hard reality is that we will never know. Best to make your peace with that.

[CordMcNally]

Re the lab leak hypothesis, do not conflate more noise with more evidence. The cold hard reality is that we will never know. Best to make your peace with that.

But why immediately dismiss it and then backtrack and start looking at it over a year later?

[Shant]

The press gotta kvetch about something?

[nephron]

I don't understand why there is so much confusion/controversy about covid-19 coming from a lab. It seems to me that if a novel coronavirus outbreak occurs in the vicinity of a lab doing research in novel coronaviruses and the first people hospitalized may have been working in the lab, you can probably assume that the lab had something to do with it. It obviously wasn't on purpose, but even the strictest protocols are dependent on the minimum wage lab technician doing a summer rotation during their college months off following the protocol. Unless all the staff were wearing personal respirators at all times, it's pretty easy to see how a super contagious virus that previously wasn't super contagious could break through whatever protocol they had in place before it became super contagious. You can easily see why a government would not want to admit that it leaked from a lab. I doubt we will ever know for sure. I'm sure China has more effective ways of suppressing information then this country where you can apparently get all prior emails publication just by asking.

[Perry Ict]

The WHO came out and said it was 'highly unlikely', Facebook banned posts about the lab leak theory and the virus being man made, and Fauci also made statements similar to the WHO at the time. They completely dismissed it publicly which I think is what is making people even more upset now. So many things were botched with the handling of this.

Exactly. And the big press organizations, which were supposed to be asking critical questions of those in power, instead were mostly joining alongside in dismissing/suppressing information and censoring the people who dared to ask those questions. The whole thing was a debacle on so many levels.

[Perry Ict]

I don't understand why there is so much confusion/controversy about covid-19 coming from a lab. It seems to me that if a novel coronavirus outbreak occurs in the vicinity of a lab doing research in novel coronaviruses and the first people hospitalized may have been working in the lab, you can probably assume that the lab had something to do with it.

The reason: authoritative institutions that were supposedly fighting "disinformation" labeling that idea "false" or "conspiracy". Under different circumstances, yes, that possibility would simply be common sense to most people.

[Tim]

The reason: authoritative institutions that were supposedly fighting "disinformation" labeling that idea "false" or "conspiracy". Under different circumstances, yes, that possibility would simply be common sense to most people.

And there is a thing such as right and wrong. Unintentional error or mistakes is one thing, no pass on the intentional and coverup and obstruction. The reason it is an issue is that the "desired message" is being documented as intentionally false and caused great harm.