Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Tim]

Back in January 2020 the path and priorities were already set.
Treatments
Vaccine development
Those were the only viable options, mission critical.
Everything else was lowering the curve. Unfortunate, but true. So on the report card we are missing a subject, treatments.
Honestly the politics that were played and the "blame game" by bureaucrats buried in the CDC and FDA is atrocious. Not the true researchers and scientists that were properly not taking shortcuts. Outstanding. The ones that were insistent that the internal administrative process be followed. Processes had to change and were.

Anecdotal on the local vaccine scheduling. Vaccine #2 I received two emails on Saturday around 5pm. Signed in and it said "rejected not eligible". Called in and of course the recording was "switchboard closed". Got a phone call at 7pm. Sunday got a second call at in the evening. Working hard to get shot #2. Three scheduling attempts is inefficient, but better than none. Shipments for #2 are not being release.
I am fatigued with the political credit and blame. We are at 65% vaccines injected with every state over 50%, 65% of shipments are injected. This vaccine effort has actually been in the last two weeks. 1.4 million 7 day average and likely 1.5 million tomorrow. The local is stepping up and doubled in the last two weeks. Pharmacies have been cut out.The worked only for the nursing homes. They were a one trick pony, the priorities screwed them up. Who would have thought that a pharmacy couldn't figure it out? National corporate policies were the weak link.
What is missing from the report card are vaccine production and successful injection. Incomplete, need to finish the semester and pass the final.

[fatlittlepig]

The vaccine rollout has been a deeply tragic and immoral failing of our government. The sense of both hopelessness and indifference by the public reflects an acceptance of this incompetence.

[Kamban]

I can't see why they'd need to even repeat Phase 3 testing, much less Phase 1 and 2. A slight modification of the spike protein mRNA in the current vaccine really isn't any different from the tweaking we do each fall with the influenza virus vaccine. We don't treat each year's flu vaccine as a completely new vaccine; why should we do that with an mRNA COVID vaccine? Now if they picked a different protein on the SARS-CoV-2 to target, then it would make sense to do more trials. But spike protein is spike protein.

The flu vaccine has been well established for years. These COVID vaccine have not been fully approved yet. Only used under emergency use authorization based on the fast, limited clinical trials. I doubt that they would allow to make modifications in the spike protein of the mRNA and roll it out into the arms of people without some clinical trials, albeit mini-limited ones might do to satisfy another EUA..

[Panscan]

The vaccine rollout has been a deeply tragic and immoral failing of our government. The sense of both hopelessness and indifference by the public reflects an acceptance of this incompetence.

I think your expectations are unreasonable and it has gone on decently well. 30 million people is a lot and there are all kinds of accounting things that explain the low percent utilization in some places.

It’s like some people expect these extremely expedited vaccines to have endless lines where the second the thing leaves the factory it is in an arm.

[Kamban]

The vaccine rollout has been a deeply tragic and immoral failing of our government. The sense of both hopelessness and indifference by the public reflects an acceptance of this incompetence.

We certainly could have and should have done better but to call it immoral means that we are at the bottom and you have no idea how difficult it is to go from having 20 million doses to giving 20 million doses. Just because we have those doses on Dec 7th does not mean by Dec 15th we will have 20 million vaccinated. We have reluctance from a large subset of people, including health care workers.

Other than small countries like Israel, UAE and Bahrain ( the latter two using Chinese vaccine with poor efficacy) that have vaccinated abound 20% of their population the rest of the world is less than 5%. USA at >2% is better than UK at 1.5% which is even better than the ponderous EU at 0.5%. Germany and France, rich countries in the EU, are rolling it out like molasses. Are they deeply tragic and immoral too? You know what they are upset about? - The UK leaving EU and able to administer it faster without the red tape.

I am not giving the Trump or Biden admin a free pass but I am a realist and just beating my chest and crying shame does not improve things. Maybe it is time for some of us to join the political process in order to have a say.

[Rando]

We certainly could have and should have done better but to call it immoral means that we are at the bottom and you have no idea how difficult it is to go from having 20 million doses to giving 20 million doses. Just because we have those doses on Dec 7th does not mean by Dec 15th we will have 20 million vaccinated. We have reluctance from a large subset of people, including health care workers.

Other than small countries like Israel, UAE and Bahrain ( the latter two using Chinese vaccine with poor efficacy) that have vaccinated abound 20% of their population the rest of the world is less than 5%. USA at >2% is better than UK at 1.5% which is even better than the ponderous EU at 0.5%. Germany and France, rich countries in the EU, are rolling it out like molasses. Are they deeply tragic and immoral too? You know what they are upset about? - The UK leaving EU and able to administer it faster without the red tape.

I am not giving the Trump or Biden admin a free pass but I am a realist and just beating my chest and crying shame does not improve things. Maybe it is time for some of us to join the political process in order to have a say.

I have mixed feelings. You're right that the US is ahead of most countries yet looking at things locally it still seems like a fragmented approach, and people are talking now about things they should have been talking about months ago. And I am not calling for national leadership - it seems to me once the vaccine gets to the state and municipal levels the states and cities themselves are in a much better position to manage distribution and administration.

[fatlittlepig]

I think your expectations are unreasonable and it has gone on decently well.

WOW, are we even living in the same country?
Here's what I see:
The largest health crisis of our time, nearly half million dead. If there was ever a time to be super intense and focused, and have a hard core federal response This is it. This is our generation's test, this is our world war 2. This is our moon shot and we have failed. After 9/11 there was urgency to act, we have had periods of time with a 9/11 amount of deaths every 2 days from Covid.

Where is the urgency?

Have you tried scheduling elderly parents for a vaccine (I have)? Navigating websites with dead ends and lack of appointments? Do you think a latino family in East LA is going to be able to navigate the system to get a vaccine, when wealthy physicians are having a problem doing the same?

Where is the urgency?

No one knows what's going on, ask the average person, How do I get this covid vaccine? No one knows what's going on. Every SNF patient if not by day 1, but by week 1 should have been vaccinated. 48% of vaccine sitting in a freezer is a sick joke. Where is the military, the national guard, the vaccine stations? What's going on? The last time I saw military, they were guarding the capitol building (??) People need to make an appointment to get a shot? Why is that? This is a joke. really.

[JWeb]

US Covid report card:
testing F
Isolating positive cases F
contact tracing F
messaging F
govt support to people F
Vaccine development A
fda approval process F
vaccine delivery F

Why don't you stop whining anonymously on a financial forum about this and actually try to change what you're so quick to criticize.

This disease did not exist 16 months ago. It's incredible how far things have come in that time. From the evolvement in treatment to yes, the vaccine. And, of course, I am not saying the U.S. response is perfect or even good. But come on.

[fatlittlepig]

Why don't you stop whining anonymously on a financial forum about this and actually try to change what you're so quick to criticize.

This disease did not exist 16 months ago. It's incredible how far things have come in that time. From the evolvement in treatment to yes, the vaccine. And, of course, I am not saying the U.S. response is perfect or even good. But come on.

Umm... OK what grade would you give the response for the categories I listed?
I'm a physician, I've done my part, I take care of covid patients every day.

[Kamban]

it seems to me once the vaccine gets to the state and municipal levels the states and cities themselves are in a much better position to manage distribution and administration.

Actually I felt so ashamed of myself in sort of piling on the national and state administration without doing something to help them out that I googled and found that our state DHEC required volunteers. I have signed up as a medical professional volunteer since I have been fully vaccinated and am free on Fridays. Let us see if they call on me to help out in any way I can.

[Panscan]

Ww2 killed 75 million people and the global population was much smaller then . That is an insane comparison. What does 48% represent ? The percent of doses used is higher than that nationally.

I think if we hit Biden 100 million goal in 100 days that will be pretty significant. The numbers are improving.

[fatlittlepig]

Ww2 killed 75 million people and the global population was much smaller then . That is an insane comparison. What does 48% represent ? The percent of doses used is higher than that nationally.

I think if we hit Biden 100 million goal in 100 days that will be pretty significant. The numbers are improving.

It was an analogy to demonstrate the urgency and unity needed to confront the problem. You do realize that many states have only administered half of the vaccine that they have in supply.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-covid-19-vaccines-administered.html

[JWeb]

Umm... OK what grade would you give the response for the categories I listed?
I'm a physician, I've done my part, I take care of covid patients every day.

Thank you for taking care of COVID patients.

And I'm not going to give a grade on anything you listed there. And that is my point.

[fatlittlepig]

Thank you for taking care of COVID patients.

And I'm not going to give a grade on anything you listed there. And that is my point.

Fair enough.

[StarTrekDoc]

It was an analogy to demonstrate the urgency and unity needed to confront the problem. You do realize that many states have only administered half of the vaccine that they have in supply.
https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...inistered.html

FLP is right - this pandemic is this generation's war -- and we're not acting like it. The full force of American might - from government to industry to individual actions should be singularly focused in defeating this virus. Other countries have done it at varying degrees of effort and have done a much more remarkable job in their war against covid.

Using the world's response and abilities as the measuring stick -- FLP's report card is spot on.

Just doing our job in the healthcare sector isn't enough. We need to muster local engagement and coordinate were we can make a difference. UCSD took that initial lead locally with county officials and now the other healthcare systems have stepped in to help do their part along with a healthy level of volunteerism to fill in the ranks.

While many things do need to start at the top to make things go, many things start locally too and both eventually meet somewhere in the middle to finish the job.

I don't fault some states in holding back 2nd dose supplies in the face of uncertainty. They clearly knew something amiss and proven correct when revealed all doses were distributed and manufacturers behind in delivery of their promised doses. eg: our current burn rate is places our inventory on hand to be 7-10 days at the local and county levels. That's razor thin with an uncertain supply line. You can't shut down a 6000 daily shot operation and restart easily with a volunteer force.