Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[billy]

You would think they could use sports arenas as large scale vaccination sites. Those places are used to getting tens of thousands of people in and out in a few hours.

I think dallas is doing this with amusement parks.

NJ now starting with malls as mass vax sites, I think Metlife stadium is also supposed to be up and running soon.

[Tim]

Well I would assume when Biden takes over there is going to be large effort to open it up and get as many people vaccinated as possible which will dwarf the current effort. Where I am anyone 75 or older plus first responders and public employees and etc can get it. That's a pretty large amount of people and obviously the criteria will become more inclusive over time.

The criteria has already changed. Last week the FDA pushed for 65+, and TODAY the CDC changed it's guidelines to include 65+. Not sure exactly where first responders ended up (public employees is a really wide moat).

So this weeks (1/11/21) efforts were in screening for 75+ and invitations. The key is the second dose. The current supply was targeted for allocating vaccine with the second dose in the plan for distribution.

In 10 days the reserved doses for #2 will be released. That reserved quantity for 2/02/21 will be gone. Allocated and shipped to a different location. Supply will evaporate.
A 95 yr old has #1 scheduled for 1/23/21. When the vaccine provider has less coming in, will the supply be allocated to new 1A, new 1B, or 2nd shot of 1A or 1B?

Will previous commitments be honored or abandoned?

Signed up through 3 places. Two hubs and a pharmacy in an attempt to get the 2nd dose for spouse and I. Impact the order demand for is tripled, I will take the first available and let the other vaccines be used by the next in line. More administration, but I don't see supply promises being kept. The additions and changes make it impossible to rely on supply through the end of the month let alone February.

The mega sites will drain the supply. Pretty simple, the commitments made to the small providers that provided "availability" will be on the back burner. The rules and supply allocations simply make a 2 shot sequence subject to doubt under any plan. Last week's promises might not be kept.
Deal with it is the only option.

[CordMcNally]

The mega sites will drain the supply.

Isn't that the goal?

[G]

You would think they could use sports arenas as large scale vaccination sites. Those places are used to getting tens of thousands of people in and out in a few hours.

Do you guys think I'm joking about a drive through at the rodeo grounds?

Git 'er done!!!

[Tim]

Isn't that the goal?

At the expense of one shot? The rules are only the person for the appointment. We have a "special note" that allows one of us to take grandma in her wheelchair to get vaccinated. 1/23/21. Should be fun with a drive thru since she does not drive and has difficulty writing. The "shot" is now at the stadium parking lot. No exceptions.
The old "reservation" is no longer valid, supply disappeared. New reservation required and new rules.

I thought the goal was to get vaccine by priority. I guess not. There are clearly trade offs. That is the "new goal". Not the old goal. Promises, appointments and vulnerable populations will now be denied vaccinations. New rules and new goals. Screw the old rules. Not important. Volume is now the goal, not what was messaged as the need for priorities to allocate vaccines and make them available.

Another alternative would be to use the HUB's to actually deliver the vaccine's under the current allocations. Were the allocations the problem or the delivery? That is the question.

[HikingDO]

Do you guys think I'm joking about a drive through at the rodeo grounds?

Git 'er done!!!

They’re using the AZ Cardinals stadium here in Arizona starting this week. First time something positive will be done in that place in years!😉

[CordMcNally]

At the expense of one shot? The rules are only the person for the appointment. We have a "special note" that allows one of us to take grandma in her wheelchair to get vaccinated. 1/23/21. Should be fun with a drive thru since she does not drive and has difficulty writing. The "shot" is now at the stadium parking lot. No exceptions.
The old "reservation" is no longer valid, supply disappeared. New reservation required and new rules.

I thought the goal was to get vaccine by priority. I guess not. There are clearly trade offs. That is the "new goal". Not the old goal. Promises, appointments and vulnerable populations will now be denied vaccinations. New rules and new goals. Screw the old rules. Not important. Volume is now the goal, not what was messaged as the need for priorities to allocate vaccines and make them available.

Another alternative would be to use the HUB's to actually deliver the vaccine's under the current allocations. Were the allocations the problem or the delivery? That is the question.

The goal is priority and speed. As we've seen with any project this size, it won't be perfect. I don't think vulnerable populations are being denied vaccines in place of the young, healthy population.

[Panscan]

We need needles in arms. I think being too picky about distribution schemes has cost us and I think that mentality is rapidly going away.

[artemis]

it's going to get really interesting and probably violent when the vax cards turn into border passes etc. you're going to have a group of people who deny that it's a problem, refuse to mask, refuse to be vaccinated, and respond with hostility and/or violence to any restrictions on themselves b/c of this.

Then they can experience the joys of a foreign legal system. Unless you have dual citizenship, international travel is not a right, as these people might be finding out the hard way. (I wonder if they have similar meltdowns over the current Yellow Fever vaccine requirements? Or maybe they don't travel enough to have run into that particular restriction, and so don't know about it?)

Edited to add: While it's COVID that's likely to bring this to a head, personally if I was the Queen of the World it would be proof of measles vaccination that's I'd be pushing for, because the disease is so very contagious and kids younger than 12 months aren't vaccinated. And I've read the incidence of SSPE may be as high as 1 in 600 in infants who contract measles. That big outbreak in NYC recently probably created 1-2 dead children walking. To me, that's simply unacceptable. No infant can make an informed decision to refuse measles vaccination, and it's ludicrous to think that parents (especially in urban areas, where people depend on public transportation) can keep their kid in a bubble for an entire year. Measles is definitely one disease we don't want to see reestablish itself in the western hemisphere (which is currently measles-free). No documentation of MMR administration or proof of a positive measles IgG titer, no international travel for you!

[Tim]

The goal is priority and speed. As we've seen with any project this size, it won't be perfect. I don't think vulnerable populations are being denied vaccines in place of the young, healthy population.

The goal of speed is being valued much over priority. Seems like some politics are playing in. High density is the lowest common denominator. That is the new priority. That is ok I guess. Promises made and priorities broke. Too bad, all those "science discussions" will take a back seat. That is the way of politics, not science.

[Hatton]

If you think about it every person vaccinated no matter the age or comorbidities theoretically slows the spread. Assuming vaccinated people either do not spread it or do not spread it as much.

[nephron]

The covid vaccine cards they are giving out look like they can be easily copied/made fraudently. I am hoping that they will do away with travel restrictions for people who have been vaccinated soon. Doing away with pre and post travel testing would be helpful as well. I know that they haven't proven vaccines prevent asymptomatic transmission, but I can't imagine that it's different then any other disease. I don't think that travel restrictions do very much unless you are on an island or something. The spread of the virus seems fairly ubiqutious throughout the country (red/blue/mask mandate/no mask mandate states). I think that the problem is that the virus is so contagious that it is largely spread via individual behavior that is hard to modify with public health mandates. I live in a mask mandated state but we have a fair percentage of non-compliance. I went skiing the other week and another skiier got into my chairlift without a mask and started talking to me. Just being friendly, but she said that she was from one of the 48 states you are supposed to quarantining from if you've travelled there and I don't think that she had quarantined at all.

This is an interesting article about the future of covid as well:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/coronavirus-immunity-future.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Health

Other coronaviruses spike and peak all the time. Even with the vaccine, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is just a constant low level of disease out there with occasional larger outbreaks for years given how infectious this virus is. I can't see them ever achieving "herd immunity" for the world and remembering how quickly this virus seemed to spread from Sub Saharan Africa to remote regions of Siberia when it first came out makes me think that it will be bouncing around for a while/maybe indefinitely as the article suggests. Children are not going to be vaccinated for years so it will always have a pool of people it could infect.

[CordMcNally]

The goal of speed is being valued much over priority. Seems like some politics are playing in. High density is the lowest common denominator. That is the new priority. That is ok I guess. Promises made and priorities broke. Too bad, all those "science discussions" will take a back seat. That is the way of politics, not science.

Speed and priority can coexist together along with science. There is no perfect process.

[Tim]

Speed and priority can coexist together along with science. There is no perfect process.

Sure, some work better than others. Not sure if they actually will eliminate commitments already made to get the benefits for vaccinations already made. Quite a few the last 2 to 3 weeks.

[G]

The covid vaccine cards they are giving out look like they can be easily copied/made fraudently. ...

Children are not going to be vaccinated for years so it will always have a pool of people it could infect.

Not gonna lie, I was hoping for something a little more official. There is no way that little post-card is going to qualify me for a hassle-free visit to Hawaii. (Yes, this is how far my travel dreams have sunk!)

Yeah, I'm probably just not paying attention, but the lack of pediatric vaccination is a giant elephant in the room that folks seem to be ignoring. In my county, under 16 is roughly 20% of the population. And then throw in the X% who refuse to vaccinate.