Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[Panscan]

The data, just as the previous poster showed. But will it endure?

Data also suggests about 1/4 of all recipients after dose 2 will have a significant reaction that could keep them out of work for a day. I had to shuffle some things but am now scheduled for dose 2 23 days after dose 1, on a Friday instead of a Wednesday.

can we talk more about second dose reactions ? 1/4 is quite a high number and the thing I read wrote “significant reaction which keeps them out of daily activities and may require medical attention.”

In light of the curves diverging around 10-12 days as discussed , I wonder if there’s any thought about just administering one dose and utilizing the saved doses to vaccinate others earlier

[StarTrekDoc]

There's a lot of talk, bit no significant data available. Same for the question of using 1/2 dose moderna that only tested 35 folk in phase 2. That's not going to cut it on a threshold level vaccine.

There's going to be fair amount of data soon on the people taking only single shot and not second. Follow those, review and publish and make determination if viable option. This isn't shingrix and shingles.

[FIREshrink]

can we talk more about second dose reactions ? 1/4 is quite a high number and the thing I read wrote “significant reaction which keeps them out of daily activities and may require medical attention.”

In light of the curves diverging around 10-12 days as discussed , I wonder if there’s any thought about just administering one dose and utilizing the saved doses to vaccinate others earlier

They're largely doing that in the UK. The problem is the studies have not been done to know the medium term efficacy of just one dose. It's being debated here but not yet implemented.

The second dose reaction is uncomfortable but nothing in the Pfizer study suggested widespread need for medical attention. The 1/4 who might not work the next day is my estimate based on the percentage of vaccine recipients who developed fever, chills, malaise, etc. The duration of the reaction was unclear.

I didn't read the Moderna study.

[Hatton]

OK I had the pfizer vaccine starting in August in the study. The second dose did produce a large red slightly painful wheal and nausea. I would of worked with it. Do it on a Friday if possible if it worries you.

[CordMcNally]

This video is a bit tedious for the first few minutes, before it transforms to gold. A good explanation about treatment in the viral replication vs. pulmonary/inflammatory phases of COVID. Any thoughts? Good info is hard to come by and a bit clouded with our current dependence on drug company data at this time.

Without viewing the video my initial thoughts are to roll my eyes when I see Dr. Marik.

[nephron]

the 30,000 in the original pfizer and moderna trials who got the vaccine are like medical gold right now. Looking at 6 months to 1 year out and beyond will be critical in determining efficacy/redosing/etc. You guys should negotiate higher reimbursement rates for follow up.

[ginmqi]

Without viewing the video my initial thoughts are to roll my eyes when I see Dr. Marik.

Oh boy. Is this case of the mans' reputation precedes him?

I don't any of the names so just curious...

[CordMcNally]

Oh boy. Is this case of the mans' reputation precedes him?

I don't any of the names so just curious...

He's of the 'metabolic cocktail' for sepsis fame.

[pulmdoc]

Oh boy. Is this case of the mans' reputation precedes him?

I don't any of the names so just curious...

Unfortunately, yes. He insisted based on a tiny sample size that HUGE doses of vitamin C (3g q6h) and thiamine and steroids was curative in septic shock, and loudly insisted that everybody skeptical of his methods had severe intellectual deficiencies. Subsequent larger study came out in JAMA with absolutely no improvements in death, duration of shock or organ failure.

That his "COVID19 protocol" is a mishmash of unstudied/understudied vitamins, melatonin etc does not surprise me in the slightest.

[CordMcNally]

That his "COVID19 protocol" is a mishmash of unstudied/understudied vitamins, melatonin etc does not surprise me in the slightest.

To be fair, that's basically what is happening with most of the other treatments for COVID, too. But, that shouldn't take away from his quackiness.

[Jaqen Haghar MD]

Unfortunately, yes. He insisted based on a tiny sample size that HUGE doses of vitamin C (3g q6h) and thiamine and steroids was curative in septic shock, and loudly insisted that everybody skeptical of his methods had severe intellectual deficiencies. Subsequent larger study came out in JAMA with absolutely no improvements in death, duration of shock or organ failure.

That his "COVID19 protocol" is a mishmash of unstudied/understudied vitamins, melatonin etc does not surprise me in the slightest.

I know all the vitamin stuff can be a bit wacky, but I do like the discussion about the use and timing of antivirals vs steroids in early vs late stages of the disease. I think they approach that part intelligently.

Currently we are in the middle of a big push to use Bam/Regeneron on just about everybody that walks in the door that qualifies on paper. Just from casual observation after treating many patients with it, they seem to progress just as you would expect them to, regardless of whether they get it or not. Well people who don’t seem to need it do great, while those that are at greater risk seem to progress. I wonder if we’d get similar results using cheap vitamins, or by shaking chicken bones over the patient.

Drug companies appear to be in the driver’s seat when it comes to stuff like this. Very little mainstream interest in anything that does not cost $10,000 a dose and involve direct government reimbursement.

[Bellescamp]

I received the second Pfizer vaccine yesterday

just a reminder to try and be off the day after You get yours. I minimized what I had read about the side effects.

this has been pretty miserable - headache, fatigue, myalgias, chills (no fevers), couldn’t sleep, etc

3 others I talked to went yesterday, and all have similar sxs

I could probably load up on APAP/NSAIDS and work today, but I’m glad I’m on the couch

[Lordosis]

I received the second Pfizer vaccine yesterday

just a reminder to try and be off the day after You get yours. I minimized what I had read about the side effects.

this has been pretty miserable - headache, fatigue, myalgias, chills (no fevers), couldn’t sleep, etc

3 others I talked to went yesterday, and all have similar sxs

I could probably load up on APAP/NSAIDS and work today, but I’m glad I’m on the couch

Thanks for the heads up. I am hoping for saturday but it might be monday based on when we get the shipment.

[White.Beard.Doc]

I got my second dose of Pfizer early today. I feel fine so far. Maybe some mild body aches. Mildly sore deltoid.

At the moment, I am still planning on mountain biking tomorrow at dawn unless some significant symptoms develop overnight.

[pulmdoc]

I know all the vitamin stuff can be a bit wacky, but I do like the discussion about the use and timing of antivirals vs steroids in early vs late stages of the disease. I think they approach that part intelligently.

Currently we are in the middle of a big push to use Bam/Regeneron on just about everybody that walks in the door that qualifies on paper. Just from casual observation after treating many patients with it, they seem to progress just as you would expect them to, regardless of whether they get it or not. Well people who don’t seem to need it do great, while those that are at greater risk seem to progress. I wonder if we’d get similar results using cheap vitamins, or by shaking chicken bones over the patient.

Drug companies appear to be in the driver’s seat when it comes to stuff like this. Very little mainstream interest in anything that does not cost $10,000 a dose and involve direct government reimbursement.

It's not the "hey let's try this" part, its the arrogance and stubborness in the face of negative data that bothers me. Treating COVID-19 has been an exercise in humility, but only for those who are capable of it.