Medical Discussion of Coronavirus

[CordMcNally]

What happens when you have 2 or 3 vaccines approved with slightly different efficacy rates, slightly different booster schedules and different side effects. Which one do you choose.

I am going to wait a bit and see what comes after Pfizer.

Great point. I have no doubt all the other companies' pressure just want up exponentially to put out a vaccine ASAP.

[jhwkr542]

What happens when you have 2 or 3 vaccines approved with slightly different efficacy rates, slightly different booster schedules and different side effects. Which one do you choose.

I am going to wait a bit and see what comes after Pfizer.

Logistics come into play at that point.

[StarTrekDoc]

J+J is just starting phase 3; so wouldn't expect approval coming out until Feb-Mar; but can easily catchup up with the single dose and -7C standard storage.

We're already in planning stages for the -70C storage needed to store in bulk. For mass vaccination, this really needs county level coordination setup at stadiums to get it out en masse

[Kamban]

J+J is just starting phase 3; so wouldn't expect approval coming out until Feb-Mar; but can easily catchup up with the single dose and -7C standard storage.

We're already in planning stages for the -70C storage needed to store in bulk. For mass vaccination, this really needs county level coordination setup at stadiums to get it out en masse

One thing not discussed so far is cost of the vaccine. Who will pay for it.

Medicare - will it be 100% or 80/20 and if so, is the 20% cost likely to be high.

Commercial payors - Is it co-pay or part of deductible. How much of that cost will be off-loaded to the insured and will they balk at it.

What about the large uninsured population who are are at high risk and also a likely source of spread.

After seeing the high cost of Zoster vaccines and it not being covered by Medicare, I am not all that optimistic.

[CordMcNally]

One thing not discussed so far is cost of the vaccine. Who will pay for it.

Medicare - will it be 100% or 80/20 and if so, is the 20% cost likely to be high.

Commercial payors - Is it co-pay or part of deductible. How much of that cost will be off-loaded to the insured and will they balk at it.

What about the large uninsured population who are eat high risk and also a likely source of spread.

After seeing the high cost of Zoster vaccines and it not being covered by Medicare, I am not all that optimistic.

I would have to double check but I believe the government has stated they would basically pay for it. Another reason for companies to be the first one out there.

[Shant]

Isn't the thinking that it would be cheaper for the government to pay for it than to not pay for it? The economic damage is extensive...

[Tim]

J+J is just starting phase 3; so wouldn't expect approval coming out until Feb-Mar; but can easily catchup up with the single dose and -7C standard storage.

We're already in planning stages for the -70C storage needed to store in bulk. For mass vaccination, this really needs county level coordination setup at stadiums to get it out en masse

County or state or national? I don’t think we are out of the woods so to speak. Do not want get back to the political aspects, but there are real political plays that are potentially helpful and disruptive. I really don’t know the answer.
El Paso is getting crushed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texasmonthly.com/news/el-paso-covid-19-spike-juarez-border/amp/

Some real border/international issues. Open border or lockdown?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/biden-covid-advisor-says-us-lockdown-of-4-to-6-weeks-could-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy.html

Wear a mask and peaceful coexistence won’t make dealing with Covid-19 easier. Problem solving takes time. 2021 will continue to be challenging, rather opportunities. Plenty of opportunities.

[Larry Ragman]

Isn't the thinking that it would be cheaper for the government to pay for it than to not pay for it? The economic damage is extensive...

That and if the government pays it is easier to ensure broad distribution without concern for economic disparities.

[Lordosis]

Just because it makes sense logically and economically does not mean it will happen.

[Random1]

I saw somewhere CMS already has the CPT codes for the vaccine and reimbursement , I think it was around $29. Whether it is financed by the tax payer indirectly through the government or through the private healthcare system , the same people end up paying for it anyway.

[CordMcNally]

That and if the government pays it is easier to ensure broad distribution without concern for economic disparities.

Maybe within the US but what about the rest of the world?

[Tim]

Maybe within the US but what about the rest of the world?

Not to mention the vaccine itself doesn’t have a defined allocation plan. One of the “scientists” seems to favor “fairness”. Shorthand for USA voluntarily creates a domestic shortage.
Good old Zeke favors the “global distribution” WHO style. Some other ideas too.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-pick-for-coronavirus-task-force-living-too-long-is-also-a-loss/

[Larry Ragman]

Maybe within the US but what about the rest of the world?

Maybe Gates will take that on?

[Tim]

Maybe Gates will take that on?

He is. Backing the WHO plan, primarily population. How much you want to bet that he and whomever are treated differently?
Rules for thee, but not for me.

[Kamban]

My take after reading a bit of the Pfizer vaccine

It is to be kept and transported at -70 C and once thawed has to be used within 5 days. And a second vaccine a month later. Antibodies in 90% but the duration of efficacy is unknown.

The cold storage and distribution pretty much rules out much of the developing countries where the incidence is high. Many who get the first dose might not come in for the 2nd. Even in developed countries like USA we don't have the facilities for such ultra low temp distribution and storage. I suspect that the main people who get it are the medical people, first responders or elderly in nursing home / assisted living where it is easy to find them and give a second dose.

Once a vaccine comes out that can be kept at -7 C, and given as one dose with similar efficacy, no one would want the Pfizer vaccine. Unless it has unusually long duration of action. We know that, Pfizer knows it and Pfizer knows we know that. So they want to come out first and push as many vials onto us before a more stable and single dose vaccine is approved. No wonder the CEO sold 60% of the stock on the day of the announcement.

Pfizer's motto - make hay before the sun sets.

P.S. I don't own any Pfizer, Moderna, Astra Zeneca or J & J stock.