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  • Originally posted by burritos View Post
    Was in a discussion with some kids' mothers yesterday. One of the mothers applied for tesla batteries May of last year and is still waiting to get them installed. Then another mother verbalized that she eventually needs to get a tesla car. I asked why? She responded sincerely(she's Swedish so I didn't get a snarky sarcastic vibe from her), "Because to save the enviroment." WTF? Is this really what is going on in the minds of educated adults? Honestly, I think most people get tesla to keep up with the jones's. That's fine, drives earnings, funds the economy, blah blah blah. Yes the environment thing and sustainability is kind of in the background. Don't get me wrong, every little bit helps, but new, shiny, envy generation is what moves motivates our lizard brain, right?
    Are there any studies comparing the cost to the environment between ICE and EV? I hear the materials for the batteries are rather bad for the environment to mine and produce.

    My guess is the best choice is to drive your old beater and not get something new.

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    • Originally posted by burritos View Post
      Was in a discussion with some kids' mothers yesterday. One of the mothers applied for tesla batteries May of last year and is still waiting to get them installed. Then another mother verbalized that she eventually needs to get a tesla car. I asked why? She responded sincerely(she's Swedish so I didn't get a snarky sarcastic vibe from her), "Because to save the enviroment." WTF? Is this really what is going on in the minds of educated adults? Honestly, I think most people get tesla to keep up with the jones's. That's fine, drives earnings, funds the economy, blah blah blah. Yes the environment thing and sustainability is kind of in the background. Don't get me wrong, every little bit helps, but new, shiny, envy generation is what moves motivates our lizard brain, right?
      I am not Swedish but help save the environment was actually number 2 in my list of reasons for buying a Tesla. The top reason was ease of home charging and starting out daily with a full tank. Keeping up with the Jones did not even enter my mind as a reason as I don't care what others drive or others think what I drive.

      People think that battery production and its environmental impact, especially lithium mining is worse than what gasoline cars do for the environment. That is just an excuse to go on buying gasoline vehicles. The reality is mining for lithium, though bad, is not as bad what people make it out to be. Lithium is eminently recyclable and there is research to substitute the easier to mine, cheaper and more abundant cobalt in place of lithium. The cars batteries last up to 500K miles, as shown by some of Tesla cars. Even though electricity production can cause pollution, it is easier to control at the big source than thousands of small little pollutants puttering away on our roads.

      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nt/3671468001/

      At the end of the day, buy what you want but if you have the wealth, why not use it for charity rather than give more to your children or to Uncle Sam. In this case I am providing some charity to help our planet live a little longer and better rather than give some to some religious organization.

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      • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post

        Are there any studies comparing the cost to the environment between ICE and EV? I hear the materials for the batteries are rather bad for the environment to mine and produce.

        My guess is the best choice is to drive your old beater and not get something new.
        People don't care about how something is made. They only care about the perceived good they think they are doing. Just like all the politicians that fly private jets to UN meetings where they talk about how they can save the planet from carbon emissions.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

          People don't care about how something is made. They only care about the perceived good they think they are doing. Just like all the politicians that fly private jets to UN meetings where they talk about how they can save the planet from carbon emissions.
          I want to know for me. Not to convince people. No point in doing that.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by burritos View Post
            Was in a discussion with some kids' mothers yesterday. One of the mothers applied for tesla batteries May of last year and is still waiting to get them installed. Then another mother verbalized that she eventually needs to get a tesla car. I asked why? She responded sincerely(she's Swedish so I didn't get a snarky sarcastic vibe from her), "Because to save the enviroment." WTF? Is this really what is going on in the minds of educated adults? Honestly, I think most people get tesla to keep up with the jones's. That's fine, drives earnings, funds the economy, blah blah blah. Yes the environment thing and sustainability is kind of in the background. Don't get me wrong, every little bit helps, but new, shiny, envy generation is what moves motivates our lizard brain, right?
            its keeping up with the jones' but they rationalize it via the environmental stuff.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post

              I want to know for me. Not to convince people. No point in doing that.
              https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51977625

              Most all reports say evs are better overall than ice cars. Yes rare earth mining is bad, but so is drilling for oil.

              For an ev, you have the carbon footprint of the battery then whatever electricity source you have locally.

              For an ice car, you have to dig up the oil (and take into account spills), transport the oil, refine the oil, transport the gas, then burn the gas inefficiently.

              Even if the ev was powered by coal, that co2 is localized at the production source rather than distributed at the city level. In the height of covid, when no one was driving anymore, it was amazing how clean the air was in certain cities that are always covered in smog.

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              • This past week Elon Musk finally acknowledged that full self driving ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

                "A major part of real-world AI has to be solved to make unsupervised, generalized full self-driving work, as the entire road system is designed for biological neural nets with optical imagers," Musk tweeted Thursday.

                Translation: AI isn't anywhere near delivering truly autonomous vehicles, as roads are designed for human brains and human eyes.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post

                  Are there any studies comparing the cost to the environment between ICE and EV? I hear the materials for the batteries are rather bad for the environment to mine and produce.

                  My guess is the best choice is to drive your old beater and not get something new.
                  If you want to reduce carbon emissions, bike to work. Oh wait, you're doing. Does it make a difference? No.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Nysoz View Post

                    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51977625

                    Most all reports say evs are better overall than ice cars. Yes rare earth mining is bad, but so is drilling for oil.

                    For an ev, you have the carbon footprint of the battery then whatever electricity source you have locally.

                    For an ice car, you have to dig up the oil (and take into account spills), transport the oil, refine the oil, transport the gas, then burn the gas inefficiently.

                    Even if the ev was powered by coal, that co2 is localized at the production source rather than distributed at the city level. In the height of covid, when no one was driving anymore, it was amazing how clean the air was in certain cities that are always covered in smog.
                    Digging up the carbon and burning it liberates the carbon that was once part of life. It'll be substrate for future life formation. Climactic changes may be sucky for some and super sucky for others. Will it create enough social unrest to trigger us into killing each other? The earth and the majority of humanity cares not. Technological attempts to ameliorate this perceived threat enriches some, but will prove impotent to restoring nature. What will restore nature? The incremental decimation of the offending organism that is perturbing the steady state sustainable natural cycles. If/when this decimation occurs, it will be self inflicted.

                    Comment


                    • Population control was at one point the “scientific solution” to pollution. The ways to achieve that were actually implemented some places. The point is, many options exist.
                      Coal is a localized problem? If that be the case, why worry about the world ending?
                      Population control isn’t very popular.

                      Food waste isn’t popular either. We don’t need “free food programs” really. Just need to get it to the people the need it. 30%_40% is wasted.
                      https://www.rubicon.com/blog/food-waste-facts/
                      Efficiency of resources is a good thing.
                      We waste a lot of things.


                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tim View Post
                        Population control was at one point the “scientific solution” to pollution. The ways to achieve that were actually implemented some places. The point is, many options exist.
                        Coal is a localized problem? If that be the case, why worry about the world ending?
                        Population control isn’t very popular.

                        Food waste isn’t popular either. We don’t need “free food programs” really. Just need to get it to the people the need it. 30%_40% is wasted.
                        https://www.rubicon.com/blog/food-waste-facts/
                        Efficiency of resources is a good thing.
                        We waste a lot of things.

                        While population is an issue, it's the percent of the population that converts into living like a westerner. Not fair to block 3rd world countries when 1st worlders have had a free pass on lifestyle for 100 years. Though honestly, since hominids have been wiping out megafauna and tilling/eroding soil(which have been thousands of years), CO2 has been bumping up, though yes we are in hockey stick mode right now.

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                        • https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...h-16165884.php

                          Preliminary NTSB release sites security camera shows driver in the front seat to start. No conclusions.

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                          • Query about the tesla roof. Functionally a solar array provides an additional layer of shading for the roof which reduces attic temp which reduces AC usage. I wonder if tesla solar engineers missed this feature. Or maybe they thought about it and ignored this temp delta because they prioritized looks over the shading benefit?

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                            • I think with modern insulation the effect would be minimal. I have been in the attic on a sunny day and it is 140 degrees but the ceiling of the second floor does not feel warm at all. 15 inches of that blown in insulation is mighty powerful.

                              Now my old house that was turn of the last century was hot as heck upstairs.

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                              • I came across this and thought it was worth sharing.

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