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  • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post
    There's not a single stat coming out of China that I trust.
    Criticisms of China and how open/trustworthy their markets are are legitimate. And skepticism of China as an investment risk is reasonable. But taking a broader look, maybe 30 years ago, China was basically a 1 billion person equivalent of North Korea. I think what they are today is a better alternative than if China had stayed the NoKo route, threatening to blow up nukes to achieve political concessions. But if you had to put money in China vs a "true" communist nations like Noko, Cuba, Venezuela, or Russia(the latter two being more petromafias vs communists), I think putting money where market greed is permitted to actualize(under a Chinese system) is not unreasonable.

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    • Originally posted by burritos View Post

      Criticisms of China and how open/trustworthy their markets are are legitimate. And skepticism of China as an investment risk is reasonable. But taking a broader look, maybe 30 years ago, China was basically a 1 billion person equivalent of North Korea. I think what they are today is a better alternative than if China had stayed the NoKo route, threatening to blow up nukes to achieve political concessions. But if you had to put money in China vs a "true" communist nations like Noko, Cuba, Venezuela, or Russia(the latter two being more petromafias vs communists), I think putting money where market greed is permitted to actualize(under a Chinese system) is not unreasonable.
      Why put money into communist nations at all. If we've learned nothing from covid it's that we should not be so reliant on one nation from a production standpoint. Need to diversify supply lines, even at the expense of cost.

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      • Originally posted by burritos View Post

        Criticisms of China and how open/trustworthy their markets are are legitimate. And skepticism of China as an investment risk is reasonable. But taking a broader look, maybe 30 years ago, China was basically a 1 billion person equivalent of North Korea. I think what they are today is a better alternative than if China had stayed the NoKo route, threatening to blow up nukes to achieve political concessions. But if you had to put money in China vs a "true" communist nations like Noko, Cuba, Venezuela, or Russia(the latter two being more petromafias vs communists), I think putting money where market greed is permitted to actualize(under a Chinese system) is not unreasonable.
        I never said I wouldn't invest in China. I have about 20% of my funds in a total international fund so a decent amount of that is China. I don't discourage people to invest in China, I just don't believe any information that comes out from there. Not that it matters because it doesn't change how I invest.

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        • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post
          There's not a single stat coming out of China that I trust.
          There’s not a single bat coming out of China that I trust.

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          • Is Tesla eventually going to be an agent of change rather than a survivor? There are some real questions on the company’s ability to support an installed base.
            ”Sales based on massive government subsidies for expensive cars. Lots of defects, both in manufacturing and design, including major ones. Sharply deteriorating servicing, with no alternatives. A lawsuit because, unlike with other manufacturers, with Tesla the customer is rarely right. Cars that don’t match their advertised ranges. Insufficient security with OTA updates and connectivity. A Tesla “fix” that is reckless and illegal. Tesla excuses and refusals to respond. A customer returning to a traditional manufacturer because of quality, reliability and customer service.

            This is the arc of Tesla in one story. And probably a major reason why, only 80 days after it first went on sale, Volkswagen’s ID.3 has outsold the Tesla Model 3 in Holland for the entire year. And why Tesla’s sales in Holland are down massively this year (although the channel stuffing at the end of 2019 to take advantage of tax subsidies before they declined is also probably a factor).
            Et Tu Consumer Reports
            First it was the highly influential JD Power Initial Quality Study that rated Tesla last in its survey of car owners, with manufacturing defects that were approximately 50% more than the industry average. “

            https://www.google.com/amp/s/seeking...-achilles-heel

            Food for thought. Quality and service reminds me of the “invasion of foreign automakers” into the US.
            The article is self serving, but the implications shouldn’t be dismissed.

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            • In terms of battery life, does it matter if you lvl2 or trickle charge?

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              • Originally posted by burritos View Post
                In terms of battery life, does it matter if you lvl2 or trickle charge?
                Technically any high rate of charge adds to degradation......but it seems to be miniscule re: long term life.

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                • yeah the difference between 120 and 240v is minimal from degradation standpoint. more importantly is keeping battery between 20-80 as much as possible. going up to 90 is 'safe' as well.

                  if you supercharge every day then it might degrade a bit more with the older batteries, but the newer ones seem to be holding up a bit better. not recommended but shouldn't kill the battery life.

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                  • Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
                    yeah the difference between 120 and 240v is minimal from degradation standpoint. more importantly is keeping battery between 20-80 as much as possible. going up to 90 is 'safe' as well.

                    if you supercharge every day then it might degrade a bit more with the older batteries, but the newer ones seem to be holding up a bit better. not recommended but shouldn't kill the battery life.
                    Have you seen the new vids talking about they were keeping state of charge 70-30 or better but saw higher BMS error......and once reset/recalibrated/ kept SoC 80+ % was actually better?

                    Confused.....

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                    • yeah, the estimated range is just that. an estimate of what your battery health is. There's so many ways to try and get your car to recalibrate but a lot of it is unfounded as well. the only real way is to ask tesla to run diagnostics on it and see if you trust that. You can try running the battery down to 1% and back to 100%, you can try to run it down to 10% and charge to 70% for a week then back up to 80% for another week to try... but in the grand scheme I don't think any of it matters. now if your rated range goes from 300 to 220 then you might have to worry and ask tesla but all in all I think the degradation some people experience isn't real.

                      the car battery is no different than any other lithium ion battery. they like to be as close to 50% as possible and in a normal temperature range.

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                      • Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
                        yeah the difference between 120 and 240v is minimal from degradation standpoint. more importantly is keeping battery between 20-80 as much as possible. going up to 90 is 'safe' as well.

                        if you supercharge every day then it might degrade a bit more with the older batteries, but the newer ones seem to be holding up a bit better. not recommended but shouldn't kill the battery life.
                        I trickle charge my leaf at work once a week to get it to around 90-100%. My wife keeps her Y between 20-80. Lvl 2 charge every 3 days. Lvl 3 charge once when she went on conference. Intuitively seems like low voltage would be better on battery life. Wondering if trickle charging daily for my wife would be better. Wondering if she should just trickle charge daily to get her mileage and the Lvl 2 charge PRN long trips.

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                        • Originally posted by burritos View Post

                          I trickle charge my leaf at work once a week to get it to around 90-100%. My wife keeps her Y between 20-80. Lvl 2 charge every 3 days. Lvl 3 charge once when she went on conference. Intuitively seems like low voltage would be better on battery life. Wondering if trickle charging daily for my wife would be better. Wondering if she should just trickle charge daily to get her mileage and the Lvl 2 charge PRN long trips.
                          Technically yes as leaf has no active mgmt of the packs.

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                          • the leaf may be different than tesla. some oems limit the amount you can charge to prevent excess battery degredation. so when you're charging to 100% it may still be only 90-95% actual capacity.

                            if you're charging at home, just set to 80% and plug in every night. a plugged in car is a happy car. if you're relying on work/3rd party then what your wife is doing is just fine as well.

                            if you can just trickle charge at home, just do that and do lvl 2 charge when you need to top off. the downside is that trickle charging is less efficient than lvl 2 charging so there's a slightly higher percent of energy lost as heat/resistance. the difference in battery health should be minimal between trickle/lvl 2 and other parts of the car should wear out before the battery goes bad.

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                            • Originally posted by burritos View Post

                              I trickle charge my leaf at work once a week to get it to around 90-100%. My wife keeps her Y between 20-80. Lvl 2 charge every 3 days. Lvl 3 charge once when she went on conference. Intuitively seems like low voltage would be better on battery life. Wondering if trickle charging daily for my wife would be better. Wondering if she should just trickle charge daily to get her mileage and the Lvl 2 charge PRN long trips.
                              The danger is that one day it might be down to 10% and started on trickle charge and an emergency occurs a few hours later and she has to rush out and range anxiety sets in. You will be searching for a supercharger. Better to just plug it in every night with a max charge of 80%. Any tie mine goes < 70% I just plug it in Level 2 at home, which is almost every night.

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                              • Originally posted by Nysoz View Post

                                ThThe most controversial thing is the steering 'yoke'. So not a wheel anymore and no PRNDL/turning stalks. This is probably solving a problem that doesn't need to be solved. There's some 'buttons' near the scroll wheels for signals/lights/horn/windshield wipers/microphone but I don't see how you're supposed to change gears. Apparently Elon tweeted that the car will sense from surroundings and figure out what gear you want to be in?

                                "No more stalks. Car guesses drive direction based on what obstacles it sees, context & nav map. You can override on touchscreen.".
                                My wife was admiring the previous Model S when we went to pick up the Model Y in Nov. She would have loved to get that as her next car and I can afford it. But I knew the battery tech and other things were old and it was due to a major refresh. I was hoping that they would incorporate the new battery tech with 4608 battery pack in it for a longer range in a luxurious car.

                                Instead we get a mess. The yoke wheel which will be a pain for may major turning around like we may to do on our driveway. And no P/D/N/R except on a touch screen that would not fly with her. Why the h*ll can't they just put buttons for it on the center console like we have on our MDX. I have had touchscreens go blank for some time on my Model3 and will never accept gear buttons on a touchscreen. Sometimes Tesla becomes too smarty pants for their own good. Elon is trying to be like Steve Jobs trying to say " I know what you need more than what you think you need". Might work for a phone but not for a car.

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