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  • I hate construction detours.
    Does “turtle mode” work for commutes and road trips? Do most people drive then “wait” for the recharge?
    I would think a backup battery would help.
    Most days someone parks and another would take off.
    Unintended benefits: Road fatigue would complete be obliterated.

    Does anyone have only one EV? No other backup vehicle?

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    • 10-15 years lordosis

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      • Probably the earlier of the year when fossil fuels no longer exist (no gas) or the end of the world occurs (11 years according to some sources). 2029? Running it to zero.

        Charging infrastructure is the bottleneck. If you think gas lines are a pain, geez (30 minutes to 24 hours)!

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        • @kamban hit it squarely on the head as far as the battery tech.   Tesla has the longest experience in high capacity battery usage and utilization.   They routinely say charge to 80% and make it a point.   At first Tesla wasn’t interested so much in efficiency but that changed dramatically with the Model 3 when they changed both battery AND motor technology and started crushing the tech.   Nothing out there really has the combination of efficiency, range, and performance that Tesla has at this time.

          Bolt has efficiency, but not styling nor performance.    Etron has performance, but efficiency/range suffers dramatically.    Leaf has some range, some efficiency some performance, but Jacks to Tesla Aces — but at 1/2 the price too.

          In truth, anything electric will cost less to maintain than any ICE vehicle.  The issue is the range and anxiety it may cause if you push the range limits.
          Click to expand...


          Where does Tesla recommend to only charge to 80%?  I'm just curious, because I've never heard this.  Lithium ion batteries are not very fussy and IME need no special coddling.  FWIW, I drive an i3 (battery only) and I've already logged over 40k miles on it, charge it to 100% every night, and have not noticed any decline in it's efficiency or maximum range.

          Also, the ~130 mile range it has is plenty.  I drive 30 miles to and from work daily and the only time I feel even a little anxious about range is during the coldest winter days when I have errands to run after work.  Usually that just means I plug in at work so I have some extra juice after.

          I think most people way, way over estimate their needs when it comes to range, especially those who have not yet owned an electric car.  I don't even think about range 99% of the time I get in the car.

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          • If you think gas lines are a pain, geez (30 minutes to 24 hours)!
            Click to expand...


            Most days, charging takes 10 seconds - 5 seconds to plug in when I get home and another 5 seconds to unplug before leaving.

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            • Where does Tesla recommend to only charge to 80%? I’m just curious, because I’ve never heard this. Lithium ion batteries are not very fussy and IME need no special coddling.
              Click to expand...


              I attached a screen shot from the Tesla app.  You can set the charge level with a slider - 50% to 90% is labeled "daily" and 100% is meant for trips.  I've never tried it, but I think if you charge to 100% frequently the car will warn you there is a risk of damaging the battery.

              Most electric cars don't let you charge to the actual 100% state of charge in order to extend battery life.  For example, the Volt has a 17 kWh battery, but only allows use of 10.5 kWh or so.  I'm not sure about the i3 but it's probably similar.

              For anyone interested, here's some good info on the factors that affect Li-ion battery life: https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries.

               

              Comment









              • @kamban hit it squarely on the head as far as the battery tech.   Tesla has the longest experience in high capacity battery usage and utilization.   They routinely say charge to 80% and make it a point.   At first Tesla wasn’t interested so much in efficiency but that changed dramatically with the Model 3 when they changed both battery AND motor technology and started crushing the tech.   Nothing out there really has the combination of efficiency, range, and performance that Tesla has at this time.

                Bolt has efficiency, but not styling nor performance.    Etron has performance, but efficiency/range suffers dramatically.    Leaf has some range, some efficiency some performance, but Jacks to Tesla Aces — but at 1/2 the price too.

                In truth, anything electric will cost less to maintain than any ICE vehicle.  The issue is the range and anxiety it may cause if you push the range limits.
                Click to expand…


                Where does Tesla recommend to only charge to 80%?  I’m just curious, because I’ve never heard this.  Lithium ion batteries are not very fussy and IME need no special coddling.  FWIW, I drive an i3 (battery only) and I’ve already logged over 40k miles on it, charge it to 100% every night, and have not noticed any decline in it’s efficiency or maximum range.

                Also, the ~130 mile range it has is plenty.  I drive 30 miles to and from work daily and the only time I feel even a little anxious about range is during the coldest winter days when I have errands to run after work.  Usually that just means I plug in at work so I have some extra juice after.

                I think most people way, way over estimate their needs when it comes to range, especially those who have not yet owned an electric car.  I don’t even think about range 99% of the time I get in the car.
                Click to expand...


                It's pretty much staple for Tesla -- mainly because of Fast charging.   Tesla has its network and when came out free charging, so really pushing 80-100% it hurts fast charging and already tapered automatically because of this.

                That's the main reason cars like Leaf that had Free-2-charge and fast charged daily killed their batteries routinely because of 1. topping off 2. poor heat management system. while Tesla batteries maintain excellent dynamics despite fast charging daily.

                But all really moot for home charging on Level 2 chargers.  I charged nightly to 100% on both the Spark and Fiat over 3 year leases, ran them down to single digits and repeated often --- no battery degradation.

                 

                Range anxiety is really for those folk who can't stand going below 1/4 tank on ICE. If you're an E Kramer person -- no range anxiety will exist on EV.    Most Tesla folk don't have it either cause battery is quite sizable.

                @Tim - with regular range batteries for daily needs -- you park your car for 8+ hours every single night.  That's plenty time to charge almost any existing EV out there with simple Level 2 charger.  Takes 5 sec flat to charge in the garage/driveway.

                ICE will die a quiet whimper. Like the disappearance of carborator engines.

                Comment


                • How much does cold effect the battery?  It gets mighty cold here and it would suck to walk out to your car after being in the office for 10 hours and it cannot get you home.

                  Comment




                  • you park your car for 8+ hours every single night.
                    Click to expand...


                    No offense intended. My question was respectful. Sometimes a family runs a car for an extremely long time. Easily can be 12-16 hours before one gets back to the garage. That is not continuous driving but i can easily have situations without a break. Go and come back from work then take-off on a 200 mile trip. Think weekend soccer tournament.

                    5 minutes would plug it in. One car was the question. Not a slam. Four and 8 hours is a long time to wait to take off.

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                    • No offense intended. My question was respectful. Sometimes a family runs a car for an extremely long time. Easily can be 12-16 hours before one gets back to the garage. That is not continuous driving but i can easily have situations without a break. Go and come back from work then take-off on a 200 mile trip. Think weekend soccer tournament.

                      5 minutes would plug it in. One car was the question. Not a slam. Four and 8 hours is a long time to wait to take off.
                      Click to expand...


                      Didn't take offense nor meant to be snippy back.  Totally understand the need to run the car lots of hours.   Wife does 200+miles easily in a day quite often.   We put nearly 25,000 miles on local driving on the Tesla 3 in 9 months and 1 set of tires doing it in local driving.   That's before our Grand Canyon trip.   All on a Tesla 3 310mi battery.

                      In most busy family cases a large battery capacity will be able to handle it on a single charge.  If by chance do you need a fast recharge cause you're getting down to 50mi and home overnight isn't for another 100mi -- a quick 15min recharge at a supercharger station will plow 100mi into the car when it's 20% state-of-charge.   Are those supercharger stations ideally located in your area?  I don't know.   In San Diego, we have quite a few options and well within our travel routes and routines -- but that's for us and matches up nicely.

                      Are EVs are everyone right now?  Nope.   Can it fit most Americans driving habits for 90%+ of the time.  Yep.   There's still that gap that will necessitate an ICE engine so single car families will be late adopters to the party until infrastructure AND batteries get into place to handle folk to 100% --- I highly doubt anyone in this forum is a single car family nor wouldn't have a large vehicle transport system too for distance vacation travel.

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                      • How much does cold effect the battery?  It gets mighty cold here and it would suck to walk out to your car after being in the office for 10 hours and it cannot get you home.
                        Click to expand...


                        My car typically gets 130ish mile range in good 75 degree weather (depending on how I'm driving)

                        In sub zero temps that number can drop to around 100-110 mile range

                        Comment







                        • Where does Tesla recommend to only charge to 80%? I’m just curious, because I’ve never heard this. Lithium ion batteries are not very fussy and IME need no special coddling. 
                          Click to expand…


                          I attached a screen shot from the Tesla app.  You can set the charge level with a slider – 50% to 90% is labeled “daily” and 100% is meant for trips.  I’ve never tried it, but I think if you charge to 100% frequently the car will warn you there is a risk of damaging the battery.

                          Most electric cars don’t let you charge to the actual 100% state of charge in order to extend battery life.  For example, the Volt has a 17 kWh battery, but only allows use of 10.5 kWh or so.  I’m not sure about the i3 but it’s probably similar.

                          For anyone interested, here’s some good info on the factors that affect Li-ion battery life: https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries.

                           
                          Click to expand...


                          Interesting, thanks for sharing.  To me it would make more sense for the engineers to protect the batteries rather than leave it to the car owners.  Meaning, don't actually let me charge my car to "true 100%", but rather let the display read 100% while the charge is actually less than that.  And base your real world range off that expectation.

                          Comment












                          • Where does Tesla recommend to only charge to 80%? I’m just curious, because I’ve never heard this. Lithium ion batteries are not very fussy and IME need no special coddling.
                            Click to expand…


                            I attached a screen shot from the Tesla app.  You can set the charge level with a slider – 50% to 90% is labeled “daily” and 100% is meant for trips.  I’ve never tried it, but I think if you charge to 100% frequently the car will warn you there is a risk of damaging the battery.

                            Most electric cars don’t let you charge to the actual 100% state of charge in order to extend battery life.  For example, the Volt has a 17 kWh battery, but only allows use of 10.5 kWh or so.  I’m not sure about the i3 but it’s probably similar.

                            For anyone interested, here’s some good info on the factors that affect Li-ion battery life: https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries.

                             
                            Click to expand…


                            Interesting, thanks for sharing.  To me it would make more sense for the engineers to protect the batteries rather than leave it to the car owners.  Meaning, don’t actually let me charge my car to “true 100%”, but rather let the display read 100% while the charge is actually less than that.  And base your real world range off that expectation.
                            Click to expand...


                            They have done so I believe, and at times even forced an 80% max recently, which people were super mad about so I think they reversed it.

                            Comment


                            • “which people were super mad about so I think they reversed it.”

                              Tends to be the reaction when government or manufacturers protect people from making stupid decisions or bad habits.

                              Comment


                              • Tesla still kicking... I thought the prediction was q2 2019 all the stuff was gonna hit the fan

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