Tesla

[Tim]

If plan to drive from Houston to Miami, what route do I take and find charging stations ?
If I drive from Houston to Dallas?
How much is the “charging station” and “how long”?
5 year cost to operate and road side assistance?
How about maintenance and repairs?
Is this a “toy” like boat on the lake? No way is it meant for ocean travel.
Tesla has been out for awhile. Most of the hype has been production problems and burning cash.
Forget the price tag, marketing EV’s to the masses has fundamental problems. GIVE me one and it will soon be a doorstop. Dead battery!
I have NEVER SEEN a recharging station in Houston, Boston or Denver, cities I have spent time in this year.
To me, it’s the “Tesla Secret Society “.

Let me compare to cellphones. I keep a car charger in the car and a charger at home. iPhone came out and works on any carrier. I didn’t have to research how to make it work.
So what does Elon do?
Tweets about buying stock or taking it private of trashing a diver rescuing soccer kids.
Buying stock in a hyped company that has missed targets, burning cash and failed to communicate to the masses how to use it’s products is not for me.

I would venture a guess, a Tesla owner has another car.
To me that’s a luxury purchase like a boat.
That certainly isn’t how EV’s are promoted.

[StarTrekDoc]

Nope - they kept going -- cut across three lanes quickly to exit out.

[Anne]

StarTrekDoc wrote:

For those following Tesla the car — Software update 9 came last weekend with an option to use the Autopilot camera as a Dashcam.

We did it for kicks and giggles, and got this captured earlier this week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrQmoZJYU-o

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Wow.  Please tell me the Audi stopped--it looks like they were about to pull over on the left hand side but then changed their mind.

The lane splitting in California is insane.

[Peds]

StarTrekDoc wrote:

For those following Tesla the car — Software update 9 came last weekend with an option to use the Autopilot camera as a Dashcam.

We did it for kicks and giggles, and got this captured earlier this week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrQmoZJYU-o

Click to expand...

wow.

glad i dont have the bike anymore.

[StarTrekDoc]

For those following Tesla the car --- Software update 9 came last weekend with an option to use the Autopilot camera as a Dashcam.

We did it for kicks and giggles, and got this captured earlier this week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrQmoZJYU-o

[StarTrekDoc]

As I said earlier, few things more polarizing than politics.   Tesla financials is one of them.  Would suggest a separate thread on that in the FF section instead of the lounge where people may have genuine interest in their products.   Of course there's the intersect of whether the company is around to supply parts and service which would be same concerns for those Mclaren, Yugo, and Saturn owners.

As for ownership --  I would say win-win if the company doesn't survive.   I currently own a very fun driving, competitive lux sedan that's cost effective and matches my Lorax mentality.   If it goes belly up, I'll have a valuable limited-production collectible on my hand.

[Zaphod]

The financials are just way more interesting than the cars right now, and its a prety extreme disconnect between the two camps view of current price and what they think the value actually is, which is super rare. Cant blame people for wanting to talk about the current drama.

[Kamban]

Dreamgiver wrote:

I personally hope they pull through as I recognize the significant innovation and disruption Tesla has introduced,

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Dreamgiver wrote:

apprehensive about buying their cars with the big unknown of possible lack of service in the future.

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The problem is the catch-22 situation.

They cannot pull through if people do not buy their cars. If everyone decides to wait and see if the company will survive before they buy the car, Tesla will have no cash to make cars and ensure their survival.

[RadMD]

I also vote to keep the financials out of it.  This thread is present in the Lounge, would prefer this be a discussion about the vehicle itself.  Let's have some more fun here and leave the financials for a separate thread.

[RDB]

Just listened to the Joe Rogan Experience with Elon Musk.........wow, he is very hard to listen to. I wish I could have that nearly 3 hours back.

[Dreamgiver]

Yep, this is an interesting conversation, I would certainly not call it a pissing match. For whatever my opinion is worth (I do have an MBA) pretty much all their financial figures lead to a path of implosion and this has been evident for the last several years to anyone who is familiar with reading 10Ks. I personally hope they pull through as I recognize the significant innovation and disruption Tesla has introduced, not to mention their pipeline of products. Nonetheless, I would steer clear of their stock and I would be apprehensive about buying their cars with the big unknown of possible lack of service in the future.

[ko]

Molar Mechanic wrote:

 

Personally, I wish staff would delete the thread.  It takes away from the value of this forum, and the worst thing that could happen is this becoming a place for a bunch of overconfident amateur investors showing how easy it is to be misled.  I’m implying you and I both in that statement.

 

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For what it's worth, I don't think this thread takes away from the value of the forum at all. It's been an interesting discussion with two different viewpoints on a business topic of the day. I've enjoyed following it, and not in a "ohhh, let's watch them duke it out and fight dirty!" sort of way. Not sure why you're saying this discussion has been reduced to a pissing match - just because two people disagree and explain their positions doesn't mean it's a pissing match.

[Molar Mechanic]

I found the charts.  I honestly just wasn't looking for that to be a clickbait 23 paragraphs in 23 page article.  I only saw page one. I'll peruse it after I finish the August bookkeeping for my office.  That is the reason I'm still on the computer past bedtime.  Defined benefit and staff contributions are due this week.

 

No further comment.  I'll look forward to interacting with you on other subjects.  We seem to agree on more than we don't.

[Zaphod]

StarTrekDoc wrote:

Seems only thing more polarizing than politics is probably Tesla investing financials.

I’d just like to keep the financials out of it –biggest irony on this forum, I know.   

Let’s talk about the cars — and how a Model 3 recently blew a Corvette off the line.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-performance-crush-corvette/

Or that a Small Lux Sedan 0-60 in 3.2sec

https://insideevs.com/motor-trend-test-tesla-model-3-performance/

 

 

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Problem is I dont think there is much question about the cars (outside production, affordability), especially that the EV is very fun and will out accelerate many ICE vehicles.

[Zaphod]

Molar Mechanic wrote:

No charts, no financial reports. Just emotion and prediction.

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There are 25 charts and an profit/loss statement with q1/2 figures and proposed (totally wag) q3 in that article. Theres a difference between you didnt find the charts relevant (many werent to me) and there being no charts. I dont know what to make of statements that are not at all in line with reality. Maybe you felt that writer was promoting a viewpoint you disagree with fine, but you implored me to link something so I did.

I dont have tesla sources outside of Elon Musk and company financials. Thats it. I dont go looking for this stuff except when you asked me.

Molar Mechanic wrote:

Why do you think the 7,000 cars tweet was a prediction not a report.

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I didnt say that, I said they didnt say they painted 7000 cars per week, just that many were produced, whatever that means. Likely does not mean they all had to be started/finished within the single time period, hence the term factory gated. Musk by his own record has not given me any reason to trust what he says on its face. Thats his own fault for getting caught up in his own predictions and things hes said that may have been a bit hyperbolic.

Molar Mechanic wrote:

it’s only because I’ve started to reply to your post on here about this company before, and always deleted them, but this time the ridiculousness of “crazy eddie” caught me off guard and I took the bait.

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You say this, but you've responded before, and at that time (white ferrari thread, pg 2) said this,

"I’ve read your stuff on here for long enough without responding. You are DEEP in the short belief system and I suspect have succumbed to the echo chamber. I’m more the fanboy, and have probably succumbed to the echo chamber on my side."

I mean come on, no one made you come at me personally. I dont feel like I have a "side" to protect. You could have simply stated your reasoning why, but you've made it about me and it seems to bother you that I hold these positions. Just move past that. I dont care at all even though you've painted me as some kind of crazy short with a twitter feed made for besmirching tsla. This is simply the preponderence of the facts as I see them, nothing more. Yes, some "shorts" are crazy and their theories are stupid, same with the uber bulls. Any extreme position is open to huge error.

You have a view, and I have a different view. We each assign our probabilities of being correct to our views, and mine is not 100%.

You admit to having a dog in this fight, but accuse me of being blinded by my "short belief system". I personally wish tsla would succeed, I simply view their financials and headwinds as a serious threat to that possibility, yet the market price is not fully reflecting this. Thats very interesting. Dont know how one could be a finance nerd and not be fascinated. I can totally separate the product from the companies financial future, etc...and from my view of people on the forum. We all have our views.

You dont have to engage any further, its fine as you havent provided any reasoning other than me being a wackadoo shorty. We have to wait months most likely at the soonest and years more likely to know whats going to happen ultimately. If you want to try to give me something concrete to discuss Im all for reorienting the conversation that way no problem.

This should not be deleted though, it will however serve as a nice historical record of the zeitgeist in general and a couple people crazy enough to voice their views when things are all well and done. It will be an excellent reminder of the dangers of single stock investing, thinking you know things, etc.etc....and thats extremely valuable on a financial forum.

How about a thought experiment? What information or change would significantly alter your position?

I know several things that would alter mine. Increased reservations, production, sales, increase in operating leverage, increase in margin, capex and line openings, etc..etc...many more really.

Remember my base position is that the equity is so overvalued that even if they do well, but not astronomically great, the stock price will come down and possibly drastically so in the future. They dont have to go bankrupt, that is an admitted extreme, though it is unfortunately increasing in likelihood.