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  • Molar Mechanic
    replied
    Tim,

    I'm struggling to figure out some of your points.  What is the thing from 2015?  There is a fantastic map on the Tesla homepage of all the superchargers.

    https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

    There is a whole page on charging on the Tesla webpage as well.  Talks about all the types of chargers, shows a live action of somebody plugging in the car (It is exactly as simple as it shows.

    https://www.tesla.com/charging

    You want a map of the route from Houston to Denver?

    https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=M3_2015_74&o=Houston,%20TX,%20USA_Houston%20Harris%20County%2 [email protected],-95.3698028&s=&d=Denver,%20CO,%20USA_Denver%20Denver%20County%20C [email protected],-104.990251

    You want to go from Houston to Amarillo (oh god why?!?!) to Santa Fe to Denver?

    https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=MS_2017_100D&o=Houston,%20TX,%20USA_Houston%20Harris%20County%2 [email protected],-95.3698028&s=Amarillo,%20TX,%20USA_Amarillo%20Potter%20County %[email protected],-101.83129689999998+Santa%20Fe,%20NM,%20USA_Santa%2 0Fe%20Santa%20Fe%20County%[email protected],-105.93779899999998&d=Denver,%20CO,%20USA_Denver%20Denver%20County%20C [email protected],-104.990251

    I actually prefer the route planner at abetterrouteplanner.com, but that is just for getting a feel for the drive and options.  This is what the screenshot I showed earlier was from.  Once I'm in the car, I just use the nav.  There is also supercharge.info, it's a janky website, but it has good information about superchargers, and you can see the announced expansion plans.  The phone screen shot was from the plugshare app.  This is a good backup for finding non-tesla specific chargers.

    Will they meet critical production?  They sold 83,500 cars in q3 in just the US.  Porsche sold 66,000 worldwide and Jaguar sold 42,000 in the same time period.  https://insideevs.com/tesla-out-delivers-porsche-in-q3/

    Also, Tesla is supposedly making a sustained thousand per day now, a 10% improvement over the last quarter.

    So far as competitors, everything announced so far only serves to reinforce the tech advantage and charging network Tesla has.  They so far are all smaller and less efficient (which does matter for charging and road tripping), and nobody is has plans to produce in volume for 18-36 months.  Honestly though, I'm excited to see them arrive, I just don't think they'll be Tesla killers.

    Go test drive one.  Talk to a dealer.  Talk to some owners.  Tesla isn't winning because it's electric.  They are truly making a superior product to any other car on the road, gas, electric, or otherwise.

    So far as going out of business?  It could happen.  It sure has to a lot of other car companies.  Time will tell, but I worry less and less about it every day, and with everyone who goes for a ride or drive in my car.  BTW, Delorean made 9,000 cars, Tesla is closing in on 400,000.  They aren't comparable.

    So far as delivery, again, it's on the website.  For Model 3: 4-8 weeks for dual motor.  6-10 weeks for RWD.  4-6 months for the short range, though until they sell the first one, that could certainly get delayed.    For S or X: Delivery in November, though there are generally some of these on lots.

    I enjoy talking about the cars.  I honestly haven't been so excited about a car since I was ~18.  I traded in a BMW M3 for the Tesla and as much as I loved driving it, I don't miss it, and hated the showy nature.  My 14 year old would ask me to drive her to school in the truck instead of the BMW since it was flashy, but in the Model3 on Thursday I had all her cheerleading friends competing for a ride in it over my wifes explorer (We hosted the team after school for a few hours.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Panscan
    replied
    I think based on their sales the marketing information and campaign has worked very well. Maybe it's not the best car for you, then don't buy it.

    I'm not a big tesla guy but they are unquestionably driving EV innovation which will benefit all of us regardless of the fate of the company itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied


    Talking with my friends there though, there is clearly an echo chamber about how bad EV life must be that simply doesn’t relate to reality. I doubt I change your mind with this post, but I do encourage you to keep an open mind. I suspect you’ll see things rapidly changing in front of your eyes.
    Click to expand...


    This is very good information. However, the marketing message and campaign has not reached "potential buyers" en mass.

    I tried to use google maps. Then I searched.
    "CCRENDO | June 23, 2015






    The website used to show a good map but they got rid of it. Frankly the best map is in the car."The last update is on the Tesla forum, 2015.

    I simply wanted t o plan a trip from Houston to Denver. A screen shot does not help. I don't have a car. Why would I buy a car "blind" without knowing how it will really serve me? It is not easy since the "education of the public is lacking". Houston to Denver maps takes me through Amarillo. I drove this before and took a side trip to Sante Fe then onto Denver. What I found was routing me through Wichita Kansas. Very POOR education and communication from Tesla.

    With the production running around 4K per month, will it every reach volumes to survive? Car companies do fail. DeLorean is an example. Service sometimes requires "factory parts" and I doubt parts will be available IF volumes don't support remanufactered or replacement parts. This struggle for Tesla manufacturing has gone on for three years. Tesla management has not come even close to their targets or reached sustainable levels. I think there exists some risk. Both in the product and the company.

    This is not meant as a critically. If I bought one today, when would I get it? I hope you enjoy yours. Quite honestly, its great technology but the "Cool Hand Luke" failure to communicate and the failure to mass produce is a concern.

    They don't even have a one page summary, "here is how you charge it, at home and away", "here is how you get it repaired", "here is how you get it repaired", "here is how you get from point A to point B", "here is how you buy it", "here is the price". Six facts that are each educating the consumer. Maybe they make it, maybe they were ahead of their time. If I was a shareholder, I would certainly want Elon to deliver the vehicle and a one page "how to". Competition is coming. Sorry about your $3,300 bill. Elon's problem is actually your problem, finding "someone" to fix the truck was alot easier than finding repairs on your Tesla if they happen to scale back and parts aren't readily available.

     




    Leave a comment:


  • Molar Mechanic
    replied
    Hey Tim,

    You've got some really good questions there.  They are the same ones that I asked before I bought my car.  The good news is that that those who've come before you and me have done much of the trailblazing.  We've had our Tesla Model 3 just under 2 months and have nearly 5,000 miles on it, due to using it for road trips from my home in the SE US to Alabama and to Virginia Beach, as well as some weekend trips for kids sports.  After those couple of trips, we'll be using it for travel to Texas at Thanksgiving.

    Doing with an EV does change things a little, and like with any change, there are some things to learn.  It is pretty easy though.  If you can use google maps to plan a route, you can use a website to plan a road trip.  The in-car navigation actually does a wonderful job of telling you when to stop and for how long.  Most of the Superchargers are at great stops, but some are a little less inviting (Chattanooga, TN you have to go into the airport for bathroom or snacks...that one sucks).

    Here is a shot I did of what it would look like to drive from my old school in West Houston to my brothers kids school in North Dallas.  One stop each way, conveniently at Collin St Bakery in Corsicana.  Route planner

    Here is a list of charging stations in Houston.  The orange ones are superchargers, the green are not superchargers.

    Houston Superchargers

    Just hitting a few points otherwise:

    How much and how long?  The car will tell you.

    Maintenance and repairs?  Maintenance is virtually none.  A coolant change every two years, a brake flush, and a cabin filter.  The car uses it's motors as generators, instead of brakes, so it saves life of brakes and puts "gas back into the tank".  This is a cost to own comparison between a Model 3 and a Camry.  I suspect it's a rose colored one, but the cost to own isn't much different than a Camry, depending on how it's equipped and how much you drive.  Cost to own.

    Burning cash and production problems.  Not my problem.  I'm doubt they go out of business at this point, and they've sold enough cars that someone will service them.

    Dead battery?  If you are smart enough to drive a car, you are smart enough not to run out of battery.  I don't think you mean it this way, but that is a strawman argument at this point.  The car just won't let you do it.

    Never seen a charging station?  I never saw WhiteCoatInvestor.com until I did, now I see it most days.  Once you look for a charging station, you'll see them all over.

    If your phone only had to be charged every 3-5 days, would you still worry about charging it?  My weekly commute totals ~130 miles.  I could do that for 2 weeks between charges if that is all I drove.  In reality I plug it in in my garage every 3rd night.  I spend less time thinking about charging than I used to spend pumping gas.

    Elon tweets?  See my comment on burning cash and production problems.  They aren't your problem unless you let them be.  I don't think much more about Elon's tweets than I do Kanye West's or Kim Kardashian's.

    Tesla owner has another car?  Yep, I kept my truck for utilities.  It's been driven ~25 miles since I bought the Tesla, and only to haul some boxes to the recycling center.  On that trip, the timing chain crapped itself and I just picked it up today with a $3,300 bill.  I'm selling the ************************ thing as soon as I complete one project.  We also have an Explorer, but my wife now want's a Tesla as soon as one that fits her needs better (7 seats with + a roof rack).

    I'm assuming you are Texas based simply from your examples.  I grew up there, though after several duty stations in the mountains and an assignment back home, I decided I liked mountains better than humidity.  Talking with my friends there though, there is clearly an echo chamber about how bad EV life must be that simply doesn't relate to reality.  I doubt I change your mind with this post, but I do encourage you to keep an open mind.  I suspect you'll see things rapidly changing in front of your eyes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    If plan to drive from Houston to Miami, what route do I take and find charging stations ?
    If I drive from Houston to Dallas?
    How much is the “charging station” and “how long”?
    5 year cost to operate and road side assistance?
    How about maintenance and repairs?
    Is this a “toy” like boat on the lake? No way is it meant for ocean travel.
    Tesla has been out for awhile. Most of the hype has been production problems and burning cash.
    Forget the price tag, marketing EV’s to the masses has fundamental problems. GIVE me one and it will soon be a doorstop. Dead battery!
    I have NEVER SEEN a recharging station in Houston, Boston or Denver, cities I have spent time in this year.
    To me, it’s the “Tesla Secret Society “.

    Let me compare to cellphones. I keep a car charger in the car and a charger at home. iPhone came out and works on any carrier. I didn’t have to research how to make it work.
    So what does Elon do?
    Tweets about buying stock or taking it private of trashing a diver rescuing soccer kids.
    Buying stock in a hyped company that has missed targets, burning cash and failed to communicate to the masses how to use it’s products is not for me.

    I would venture a guess, a Tesla owner has another car.
    To me that’s a luxury purchase like a boat.
    That certainly isn’t how EV’s are promoted.
    I don’t wish answers in the forum. Just pointing out some problems with Tesla.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    If plan to drive from Houston to Miami, what route do I take and find charging stations ?
    If I drive from Houston to Dallas?
    How much is the “charging station” and “how long”?
    5 year cost to operate and road side assistance?
    How about maintenance and repairs?
    Is this a “toy” like boat on the lake? No way is it meant for ocean travel.
    Tesla has been out for awhile. Most of the hype has been production problems and burning cash.
    Forget the price tag, marketing EV’s to the masses has fundamental problems. GIVE me one and it will soon be a doorstop. Dead battery!
    I have NEVER SEEN a recharging station in Houston, Boston or Denver, cities I have spent time in this year.
    To me, it’s the “Tesla Secret Society “.

    Let me compare to cellphones. I keep a car charger in the car and a charger at home. iPhone came out and works on any carrier. I didn’t have to research how to make it work.
    So what does Elon do?
    Tweets about buying stock or taking it private of trashing a diver rescuing soccer kids.
    Buying stock in a hyped company that has missed targets, burning cash and failed to communicate to the masses how to use it’s products is not for me.

    I would venture a guess, a Tesla owner has another car.
    To me that’s a luxury purchase like a boat.
    That certainly isn’t how EV’s are promoted.

    Leave a comment:


  • StarTrekDoc
    replied
    Nope - they kept going -- cut across three lanes quickly to exit out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anne
    replied




    For those following Tesla the car — Software update 9 came last weekend with an option to use the Autopilot camera as a Dashcam.

    We did it for kicks and giggles, and got this captured earlier this week:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrQmoZJYU-o
    Click to expand...


    Wow.  Please tell me the Audi stopped--it looks like they were about to pull over on the left hand side but then changed their mind.

    The lane splitting in California is insane.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peds
    replied




    For those following Tesla the car — Software update 9 came last weekend with an option to use the Autopilot camera as a Dashcam.

    We did it for kicks and giggles, and got this captured earlier this week:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrQmoZJYU-o
    Click to expand...


    wow.

    glad i dont have the bike anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • StarTrekDoc
    replied
    For those following Tesla the car --- Software update 9 came last weekend with an option to use the Autopilot camera as a Dashcam.

    We did it for kicks and giggles, and got this captured earlier this week:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrQmoZJYU-o

    Leave a comment:


  • StarTrekDoc
    replied
    As I said earlier, few things more polarizing than politics.   Tesla financials is one of them.  Would suggest a separate thread on that in the FF section instead of the lounge where people may have genuine interest in their products.   Of course there's the intersect of whether the company is around to supply parts and service which would be same concerns for those Mclaren, Yugo, and Saturn owners.

    As for ownership --  I would say win-win if the company doesn't survive.   I currently own a very fun driving, competitive lux sedan that's cost effective and matches my Lorax mentality.   If it goes belly up, I'll have a valuable limited-production collectible on my hand.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zaphod
    replied
    The financials are just way more interesting than the cars right now, and its a prety extreme disconnect between the two camps view of current price and what they think the value actually is, which is super rare. Cant blame people for wanting to talk about the current drama.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kamban
    replied


    I personally hope they pull through as I recognize the significant innovation and disruption Tesla has introduced,
    Click to expand...




    apprehensive about buying their cars with the big unknown of possible lack of service in the future.
    Click to expand...


    The problem is the catch-22 situation.

    They cannot pull through if people do not buy their cars. If everyone decides to wait and see if the company will survive before they buy the car, Tesla will have no cash to make cars and ensure their survival.

    Leave a comment:


  • RadMD
    replied
    I also vote to keep the financials out of it.  This thread is present in the Lounge, would prefer this be a discussion about the vehicle itself.  Let's have some more fun here and leave the financials for a separate thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • RDB
    replied
    Just listened to the Joe Rogan Experience with Elon Musk.........wow, he is very hard to listen to. I wish I could have that nearly 3 hours back.

    Leave a comment:

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