Tesla

[Kamban]

What are your thoughts on long term Tesla ownership, especially beyond the warranty period? Specifically the model 3, which I know is still young. Certainly lots of unknowns out there right now. Any of you planning on keeping this car 10+yrs? What do you think will be it's reliability, issues, costs, etc.? I read a lot of speculation, optimism, or pessimism, and it's hard to gauge what to really expect.

No one really knows.. The most expensive items are the battery and drive units. The battery is warranted for 100 or 120K miles ( short vs long range Model 3) / 8 years. There is history of Model S batteries lasting a long time and the technology in the Model 3 battery is newer and supposed to last longer. The power train is similar warranty.

If it gives relatively trouble free service for 8 years, I will take my chances after that. If major repair is needed, I might trade it in with Tesla for that year's model.

[DoctorSpouse]

What are your thoughts on long term Tesla ownership, especially beyond the warranty period? Specifically the model 3, which I know is still young. Certainly lots of unknowns out there right now. Any of you planning on keeping this car 10+yrs? What do you think will be it's reliability, issues, costs, etc.? I read a lot of speculation, optimism, or pessimism, and it's hard to gauge what to really expect.

[burritos]

Everyone one has an opinion:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-teslas-model-y-crossover-the-worlds-best-car-11591365620

Sorry, I you'll need a subscription to read the whole thing.

[Nysoz]

https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+jd+power

I don't have a Tesla, but I am rooting for them as a:

1) Car company
2) Innovative company

But this report befuddles me. I've heard, not just from here, that Teslas have been extremely reliable. Objective truth to the JD Power results?

Or is it just JD Power isn't what it used to be?

Or is it the typical Tesla buyer/owner is less tolerant to problems than a typical gas car owner?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKt5XFVFq8E

JD powers vice president of automotive quality. Apparently for all other companies they allow JD powers to interview customers in every state. Tesla doesn't allow them so that means 15 states are excluded (including california) and 35 states didn't need Tesla approval.

Tesla scored poorly because body panels not fitting, wind noise, paint, doors hard to open or close, tailgate hard to open or close, squeaks and rattles. Concerns over the infotainment, consumers find it complicated to use.

Dodge and Kia scored well because they delivered an appropriate amount of technology that those customers want.

As for the other companies trying to catch up to Tesla. It's one of their advantages of being so vertically integrated. They don't have the traditional supply chain like other companies. That's why if you go into a new car, the infotainment still looks relatively awful and hasn't changed much in years. A traditional company like toyota/lexus has order agreements with the car infotainment company for years. With that order agreement in place, the infotainment company has no need to change their inferior product and just gets more dated. That's why traditional companies have refreshes of cars every 4-6 years or whatever it is.

Tesla makes incremental improvements as they go. Early model 3 back seats were too low and so they changed it mid year. The majority of people weren't using frunk hooks so they took them out to save money (although some people were unhappy with that). The car computer motherboard is developed in house to integrate every system seamlessly while competitors have a computer that has to integrate separate systems made from different companies.

It's going to be hard to other companies to catch up because most other companies are dependent and entrenched into those traditional supply chains rather than developing everything themselves. If toyota wants something developed or changed, they have to talk to that company, that company has to talk to their people, their people have to develop the idea, it has to get the approval of that company and toyota company, and also make sure it's compatible with every other system.

Tesla's FSD chip is developed in house to their specifications and needs. Other companies are forced to use whatever NVIDA or AMD puts out and adapt to that.

VW has made tons of ID3s but none of them really work because of software issues. They have to spend billions to fix it hiring software engineers to try and identify the problems and fix it while Tesla have their own on staff.

I think these are the reasons why other companies are going to always be years behind tesla. It's going to take another company working from the ground up to constantly innovate and progress to compete. Or the old companies have to bring everything in house and get rid of the traditional supply chain to keep up.

But yes, they have a lot of work to do in QC and customer service. Some things matter a lot. Some things don't, but customers make them mountains instead of molehills. My car had minor cosmetic issues that I wouldn't have noticed unless I was looking hard for them but Tesla has fixed the ones that matter. After seeing some of the model Ys being delivered I'd probably wait a bit to order one while they dial things in more and aren't in an end of quarter push if I didn't need the extra incentives.

[Hank]

The other e vehicles that are coming out have to play catchup. Eventually the other EV's will be able to catch up. The question is how long will that take.

Other auto manufacturers have been due to catch up with Tesla for years now. For whatever reason, they have not or cannot catch up with Tesla.

Toyota is especially puzzling. They had an early low fuel, eco vehicle lead with the Prius. The first generation had some compromises, but from about the third generation onward they've had good storage space, great fuel economy, and pretty decent bang for the buck pricing. Yet Toyota didn't get serious with the plug in variant, held onto their crappy infotainment system instead of embracing Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, and made the puzzling decision to field hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (Mirai?) instead of zero emission electric vehicles.

VW's pivot to electric looks more like greenwashing in light of their Dieselgate scandal vs. a move the company wanted to make voluntarily. The Big 3 domestic manufacturers would like to sell gas guzzling SUVs for another century if they could.

The interior quality of a Tesla certainly could be better. But I don't see another electric manufacturer that has the range, acceleration, resale value, free over the air updates, etc. that Tesla has. Heck, if pricing and everything else were identical between Tesla and its competitors, I still would buy the Tesla to avoid giving money to the local auto dealership.

[burritos]

I think Tesla is the equivalent of the iphone especially in the early years. Sleek looking. Great features. Owners are acolytes. It's a status symbol. It costs more. The other e vehicles that are coming out have to play catchup. Eventually the other EV's will be able to catch up. The question is how long will that take. I have confidence that the koreans will definitely make a run. My sister "loves" her niro. The issue with cars vs phones is you can get a phone every 1-3 years, it's not that big of a deal. For most people the car is an every 5-10 years iteration.

[Kamban]

When Dodge and Kia and Chevrolet score at the top and Toyota, Volvo, Audi and Tesla are at the bottom, I am not sure that I will use that ranking of customer based complaints to buy a Dodge or Chevy rather than a Toyota, Audi or Tesla.

[Kamban]

JD Power used to be worth something. Now I am not sure I will make any car decision based on their ratings. I don't buy a car based on customer complaints ( whining) during the first 90 days. I buy it because I want a reliable car for 10+ years.

Tesla is really not a established car company. It is primarily a battery and software company that has made cars for 10 years or so. Their fit and finish on cars are not as good as even a Honda Accord - that is something even die hard Tesla fans accept. But is that something that you should use to not buy the car. Sometimes the whining becomes so ridiculous that it is laughable. Go to Tesla Motors club forums and see some of the postings that make you roll your eyes involuntarily - My door and side panel are off by 1 mm and I have used an electron microscope to produce the evidence. My paint has 2 small spots and here is the evidence under a magnifying glass. My 100% charged battery shows a range of only 309 miles instead of the 310 miles it is claimed to give. And so on.

My Tesla had a very good paint job. The rear lights are off by 5 mm or so from the trunk lid. But who cares. It closes well, charges well and drives well. Other than some purchases I made for the car - some sun screens, mats for frunk and trunk and floors and wireless charger pad and a samsung SSD drive for recording the cameras, I did not spend a penny until yesterday evening when I went to Costco to have tires rotated for $31.95. That is all, in 10 months of driving. If it does that every year ( plus new tires and wiper blades as needed) it will be the cheapest maintained car I have ever owned.

[Peds]

But this report befuddles me. I've heard, not just from here, that Teslas have been extremely reliable. Objective truth to the JD Power results?

Or is it just JD Power isn't what it used to be?

JD power does not measure reliability.

these are owners who bough a car for 90 days. this includes items that fail, features that are difficult to use, hard to understand, or dont work the way owners want...

its basically worthless.

[CordMcNally]

https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+jd+power

I don't have a Tesla, but I am rooting for them as a:

1) Car company
2) Innovative company

But this report befuddles me. I've heard, not just from here, that Teslas have been extremely reliable. Objective truth to the JD Power results?

Or is it just JD Power isn't what it used to be?

Or is it the typical Tesla buyer/owner is less tolerant to problems than a typical gas car owner?

I feel like most people that are buying Teslas are big fans of Teslas so are going to give them a better than realistic review. I still don't think Tesla will make it as a car company but I think they've changed the game for the better.

[Cubicle]

https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+jd+power

I don't have a Tesla, but I am rooting for them as a:

1) Car company
2) Innovative company

But this report befuddles me. I've heard, not just from here, that Teslas have been extremely reliable. Objective truth to the JD Power results?

Or is it just JD Power isn't what it used to be?

Or is it the typical Tesla buyer/owner is less tolerant to problems than a typical gas car owner?

[Kamban]

My old neighbor got a Model 3 2 years ago right before I moved. My wife asked his wife how she liked it and she told us that she is not allowed to drive it. AKWARD!!!

That is terrible to do.

But the way you start and drive the Model3 is completely different from any other car. For starters there is no power button. It is on from the moment you open the door with the phone in your pocket. You use the right "wiper stalk" to put the car in drive, reverse, neutral and park. Invariably, after driving the Tesla when I have to drive the Acura I turn on the wipers when I have to put it in drive. Or take off the foot from the accelerator and find the car is not braking as it should and almost rear ends the car ahead of me. Or forget to use the Push button to start or stop the car. Or forget to bring keys out or lock car. These little things annoy me but it is OK if is occasional.

Even my 16 year old hates driving gas cars after getting used to the Tesla. She LOOVEES it.

[Lordosis]

My old neighbor got a Model 3 2 years ago right before I moved. My wife asked his wife how she liked it and she told us that she is not allowed to drive it. AKWARD!!!

[adventure]

The low end Model 3 SR+ will charge at a max of 32 amps so even the faster Tesla wall charger will not be better than using the charger supplied with the car and using the 220V adapter and plugging in a 40 amp 220V wall socket ( like the one for dryer).

Only if you get the AWD Model 3 that charges at 48 amps will the faster $500 Tesla wall charger be faster than using the adapter and plugging in a routine 220V/40 amp wall socket. I got the wall charger only because I wanted one in the car at all times and leave one plugged in the wall at all times ( constantly plugging and unplugging the wall socket causes undue excessive heat build up and melting of the socket). The $500 was worth it to me for that reason.

I think Tesla gives an adapter for J1772, like ones used by the Leaf. What is the max amp output of the Leaf charger?

... depends on the charger. Think of them as J1772 chargers, not "leaf" chargers. Amazon has many. Most are 15-40 amps, but really depends on the power available. Not all dryer plugs and wiring are actually 40amp.

We have a 220v 40 amp J1772 chargerfor our leaf, and keep the 110v 15amp charger in the car. It's pretty nice to have a way to charge with a 110v outlet. Fast, nah, but kind of a nice feature. A lot of parking garages around here have added more 20amp 110v outlets. Nice to have something in the car if needed.

[Nysoz]

same software update? same cabin overheat protection modes? that's interesting the y has higher vampire drain for no reason