Tesla

[StarTrekDoc]

-Pre-EV:  our visits to the 'ole petrol station was 1/week with ave driving and 1/4 tank reserve.   The numbers bear that out

 

Ave driver

12,000 miles with 400mi tank range =  a x2.5/month if driven to empty

15,000 mi ups that to over x3/month if driven to empty.

 

Just for those not EV fans :  These are our comps when gas was at nadir in Cali and against our Honda CRV vs Spark.  Throw in Premium Gas for performance comps Tesla vs BMW -- the gap will be even higher.

15,000 miles in ave ICE car 25 MPG combined $2.50/gallon = $1500 annual gas

15,000 miles on ave EV car 4.0 miles/KwH @ 0.19/Kwh = $713 annual electric cost.

[hightower]

StarTrekDoc wrote:

 

15,000 miles in ave ICE car 25 MPG combined $2.50/gallon = $1500 annual gas

15,000 miles on ave EV car 4.0 miles/KwH @ 0.19/Kwh = $713 annual electric cost.

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Similar numbers in my experience with EVs so far as well, except our electricity is cheaper here in Ohio and I get a slightly better average range of 4.5 miles/kWh.  My BMW i3, with our electric costs (0.13/kWh including all taxes and fees), would be closer to $433 annual electric cost.  Add to this the fact that I can charge up partially at work and can get free fast charges for the first 2 years and the price is a lot better.  I would bet I spend less than $200 this year on electricity for this car.

Even if I didn't have access to free charging, we're talking about >$1000/yr saved compared to buying gas.  So, if I keep this car 10 years (which I fully plan on), that's $10,000+ saved.  Plus, I fully expect this car to have much lower maintenance costs over the next 10 years compared to an ICE.  It has no scheduled service visits for quite some time other than a tire rotation.  That's a pretty good deal for a nice luxury car that is fun to drive and environmentally friendly.  If Tesla Model 3 had been available at the time I bought the i3, I would have definitely went for a Tesla.  But, I'm very happy with the i3 and it's going to be a car we keep for the long haul.  When Tesla's are more widely available and the batteries have even longer range, we'll be getting rid of our Honda Fit and replacing it with the Tesla for road trips.  I predict that will be in the next 5-6 years.

[ITEngineer]

hightower wrote:

Similar numbers in my experience with EVs so far as well, except our electricity is cheaper here in Ohio and I get a slightly better average range of 4.5 miles/kWh.  My BMW i3, with our electric costs (0.13/kWh including all taxes and fees), would be closer to $433 annual electric cost.

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I'm in PA. I pay higher electric rates b/c I can't bring myself to buy the cheapest electricity (coal) for an EV so I get a renewable source and pay a higher rate. Is environmental considerations a concern of yours? (just asking, this is a friendly question...but it sounds passive aggressive....I tried to reword it but I speak English good....)

[StarTrekDoc]

@hightower - I use 4.0 as a conservative number as it's a good round one where the Tesla S/X would aspire to, but the smaller cars like your i3 and our Spark easily to 4.5 even with a heavier foot.  Was taking worst case scenarios to show that EVs outperform ICE in savings.   Add to that, we got our two EVs on lease for 0 down and <$100/month including taxes.   For the Spark that didn't include a $3000 kicker from the County.   So, yeah, EVs are literally cheaper than dirt at times.

Telsa, OTOH, has upfront capital outlays which I am fully acknowledging as my indulgence to get Autopilot  

@ITE - Cali - high renewables.  Our footprint is a low as we can are willing to go with EV and Home PV.   I'm not good at composting.

 

[RadMD]

q-school wrote:

Jeez how often are you guys going to gas stations? I’m there five minutes max maybe once every three weeks.
Sure if we take a driving trip I may go twice in one week but I’m generally either on vacation or have time allotted. Still only five minutes.

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Its not really "5 minutes" either.  You have to drive there and drive back, which adds additional time.  I also remember when I was running low on gas, even thinking about when to go to the gas station (before work, after work, etc) was an additional stress I didn't realize I hated until it was gone.  And what about when its really cold, hot, raining or otherwise unpleasant conditions at the gas station?  Charging in the comfort of your garage becomes even more appreciated.

No matter the frequency of gas station visits, when it goes to zero, you really really appreciate the convenience of having a "gas station" in your garage and having a "full tank" every single day.

[jfoxcpacfp]

OK, which one of you guys added my email addy to the Tesla prospective buyers spam list? This is the only unsubscribe I've ever done that stated it will take at least a week to get off :roll:

[q-school]

RadMD wrote:

q-school wrote:

Jeez how often are you guys going to gas stations? I’m there five minutes max maybe once every three weeks.
Sure if we take a driving trip I may go twice in one week but I’m generally either on vacation or have time allotted. Still only five minutes.

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Its not really “5 minutes” either.  You have to drive there and drive back, which adds additional time.  I also remember when I was running low on gas, even thinking about when to go to the gas station (before work, after work, etc) was an additional stress I didn’t realize I hated until it was gone.  And what about when its really cold, hot, raining or otherwise unpleasant conditions at the gas station?  Charging in the comfort of your garage becomes even more appreciated.

No matter the frequency of gas station visits, when it goes to zero, you really really appreciate the convenience of having a “gas station” in your garage and having a “full tank” every single day.

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it's literally on my way home from work.  but okay, i can see if you are having to drive out of your way to a gas station.  i don't really personally buy the too cold too hot too wet argument as i have a coat, or i'm dressed appropriately, and the station is covered but okay i can see that it could be viewed as inconvenient.  i would argue that in most places, if thinking about going to a gas station is a stress (ignoring finances), this is a first world problem and you are stressed for other reasons.

i'm glad you are happy with your purchase however.  

 

[hightower]

ITEngineer wrote:

hightower wrote:

Similar numbers in my experience with EVs so far as well, except our electricity is cheaper here in Ohio and I get a slightly better average range of 4.5 miles/kWh.  My BMW i3, with our electric costs (0.13/kWh including all taxes and fees), would be closer to $433 annual electric cost.

Click to expand…

I’m in PA. I pay higher electric rates b/c I can’t bring myself to buy the cheapest electricity (coal) for an EV so I get a renewable source and pay a higher rate. Is environmental considerations a concern of yours? (just asking, this is a friendly question…but it sounds passive aggressive….I tried to reword it but I speak English good….)

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No offense taken...I definitely care deeply about the environment and I buy from renewable sources too.  I am currently getting a discounted rate for the first year.  I don't know how much higher it will be when the promotional period ends.  We'll see.  But, I plan on sticking with renewables for sure.  It's a political statement for me as well.  I can't control what the idiot in the White House is doing, but I can control what I spend my money on  I don't mind spending a little more on electricity if it means it's coming from renewable sources.

[ITEngineer]

jfoxcpacfp wrote:

OK, which one of you guys added my email addy to the Tesla prospective buyers spam list? This is the only unsubscribe I’ve ever done that stated it will take at least a week to get off

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Busted  

Remember - You started this Thread! At least go to your local dealer and get take test drive. It's zero pressure.

[adventure]

jfoxcpacfp wrote:

OK, which one of you guys added my email addy to the Tesla prospective buyers spam list? This is the only unsubscribe I’ve ever done that stated it will take at least a week to get off

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Thats funny.

[burritos]

Just got a 2018 Leaf for my wife. Her RT is 56 mi/day.  24k fully loaded after tax credit and state/edison rebate. That's less than half the cars that are parked in our local high school. For those who want to fly under the radar and go electric, it's a plausible alternative to the Tesla. My kid 12 year old may inherit when he is of age, at which EV's likely will have more choices and bigger batteries. Wife is loving not having to stop at the gas station.

[StarTrekDoc]

There's a lot more options out there now if EV is your only criteria.   We drove Fiat 500e and Chevy Spark until we got the Tesla 3 in March.

We have an eye for the new Niro EV that just released its specs to replace the aging CR-V as the local hauler.  The Leaf just didn't have enough space to haul for us, but is a very capable car for daily activities.

There's almost an EV/PHEV for every case use now.

[jfoxcpacfp]

burritos wrote:

Just got a 2018 Leaf for my wife. Her RT is 56 mi/day.  24k fully loaded after tax credit and state/edison rebate. That’s less than half the cars that are parked in our local high school.

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LOVE that - what do you bet it’s the students and not the staff? Almost 25 years ago, I noticed beemers in our high school student parking lot.

[burritos]

jfoxcpacfp wrote:

burritos wrote:

Just got a 2018 Leaf for my wife. Her RT is 56 mi/day.  24k fully loaded after tax credit and state/edison rebate. That’s less than half the cars that are parked in our local high school.

Click to expand…

LOVE that even though not related to the current discussion – what do you bet it’s the students and not the staff? Almost 25 years ago, I noticed beemers in our high school student parking lot.

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I'm almost certain most of the nice cars belong to the students. This area(like many many areas in the western world of abundance) is loaded with 3rd basers getting their birthright "nice car" for good grades. Which admittedly, is the path my kids are going down. Though at the age of 12 my son is one of the last 3 kids in his class without an iphone. Only half the kids in my 8 year old's class has iphones. I'm trying but it's an exercise in futility I suspect.

[jhwkr542]

burritos wrote:

jfoxcpacfp wrote:

burritos wrote:

Just got a 2018 Leaf for my wife. Her RT is 56 mi/day.  24k fully loaded after tax credit and state/edison rebate. That’s less than half the cars that are parked in our local high school.

Click to expand…

LOVE that – what do you bet it’s the students and not the staff? Almost 25 years ago, I noticed beemers in our high school student parking lot.

Click to expand…

I’m almost certain most of the nice cars belong to the students. This area(like many many areas in the western world of abundance) is loaded with 3rd basers getting their birthright “nice car” for good grades. Which admittedly, is the path my kids are going down. Though at the age of 12 my son is one of the last 3 kids in his class without an iphone. Only half the kids in my 8 year old’s class has iphones. I’m trying but it’s an exercise in futility I suspect.

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Smart phone at an early age?  Fine, it's help them socially and at some point in their life, they'll get one anyways.  But I think it's a disservice to get your kids nice cars in high school.  Anecdotal story:  my brother and I went to the same high school, just 14 years apart.  My first car to drive in HS was a 1979 POS that barely ran, broke down a lot, started half the time, didn't have air conditioning, and burned oil/gas/every other fluid you put in it.  The next car I drove was in college and it didn't have AC either, but it didn't stink and it was a reliable Honda Civic, so I thought it was great.  The very first car I bought with my own money was in med school when I totaled my previous one.  It was 10-15 years old, cost $4k and lasted me about 10 years.  But it did have AC, so I thought it was great.  My brother on the other hand complained that he "needed" a nice car in HS because all his friends had them, so my parents got him a 3-4 year old BMW.  I'm curious what his first car he buys will be.  I doubt it'll be an old beater like what I got.  "A luxury once enjoyed becomes a necessity"

I have a hard time those kids will be buy a non-luxury car if that's what they're accustomed to.  It's hard to go "backward" on things like this.