Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Work Life Expectancy for Physicians

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • childay
    replied




    ent program in my mind.  There need to be checks on peo
    Click to expand...


     




    Remember that there are far more female physicians graduating residency than 30 years ago.  In many fields, training 1 female physician produces 0.5 FTE physicians or less.  In my residency class, >75% of the female physicians work very part time or not at all. Most are married to high earners and like being with their kids, or doing research, or pharma consulting.  The marriage penalty in our tax code makes it highly disadvantageous for a second high earning spouse to work.


    Thanks I meant to quote Raster about the female FTEs, not sure if that was my mistake or a bug..

    Leave a comment:


  • TheHappyPhilosopher
    replied





    doing research, or pharma consulting.  The marriage penalty in our tax code makes it highly disadvantageous for a second high earning spouse to work. 
    Click to expand…


    Any sources on those numbers?
    Click to expand...


    You don't need sources, just plug in addition income in taxcaster or some tax estimation program. All of that additional money is probably taxed at the highest federal tax bracket. Add in FICA, state, ACA, etc. and the effective tax rate on the additional money is likely over 50%. If that person were single instead, earning same income, they would fill up all the lower tax brackets and the effective rate on that income would be lower. Two single high income people will most certainly pay less tax than if they are married.

    Leave a comment:


  • uptoolate
    replied







    I think part of the change from “the olden days” to now is, fewer docs are owners and more are employees. In the good old days when you owned your practice it seemed like people did it longer due to a deeper commitment to patients, community, etc. I think now where most are employees it’s easier to walk away or go part time.
    Click to expand…


    I agree that’s a big part of the change.  I also think the steady increase in what I call “bureaucratic nonsense” (stuff we have to do simply to meet some arbitrary requirement imposed by various outside entities in order to get paid or remain licensed, rather than because it actually improves patient care) is burning practitioners out faster, leading to shorter careers.  When every day at work starts feeling like standing in line at the DMV, why work longer than you absolutely have to?
    Click to expand...


    I agree with this.  Certainly one of the main reasons for my retirement was hospital bureaucracy and what I saw as various roadblocks to providing safe and effective patient care.  Also, there are real costs at the licensing level. I still have my licence and necessary credentials to practice but they are expensive in terms of time and money.  I am in a relatively high demand sub-specialty and when word got out that I had packed it in the phone started to ring from colleagues who asked me if I would do some locum/relief work.  Generally, I declined but on a couple of occasions an old friend was in a jam and I agreed to help.  The hoops I had to jump through and the costs involved were ridiculous to get credentials to practice in another jurisdiction.  This is generally a full employment program in my mind.  There need to be checks on people but when someone has been a member in good standing of one or two Colleges and has never had a lawsuit against and is being asked to go somewhere by a local MD for a few weeks to serve a population.... well, IMHO it should be a bit easier.

    Leave a comment:


  • childay
    replied


    doing research, or pharma consulting.  The marriage penalty in our tax code makes it highly disadvantageous for a second high earning spouse to work.
    Click to expand...


    Any sources on those numbers?

    Leave a comment:


  • VagabondMD
    replied







    I think part of the change from “the olden days” to now is, fewer docs are owners and more are employees. In the good old days when you owned your practice it seemed like people did it longer due to a deeper commitment to patients, community, etc. I think now where most are employees it’s easier to walk away or go part time.
    Click to expand…


    I agree that’s a big part of the change.  I also think the steady increase in what I call “bureaucratic nonsense” (stuff we have to do simply to meet some arbitrary requirement imposed by various outside entities in order to get paid or remain licensed, rather than because it actually improves patient care) is burning practitioners out faster, leading to shorter careers.  When every day at work starts feeling like standing in line at the DMV, why work longer than you absolutely have to?
    Click to expand...


    I was just talking to my wife about this today. I love doing the basic IR procedures, and after doing many of them for 20+ years, I feel like I am at the top of my game--quick procedures, good outcomes, high patient satisfaction, etc. I cannot tell you how many times each day a patient says something like, "You are done already?" or "Wow, that was fast!" or "That was so much less painful than when Dr. XXX did it last time". Yet, at the end of the day, I am exhausted, frustrated, and totally spent from all of the BS in between the procedures to the point that I want to quit, like, yesterday (in fact, if you have been following my story, I did quit last summer but got talked into staying on a little longer).

    Leave a comment:


  • Raster
    replied
    Remember that there are far more female physicians graduating residency than 30 years ago.  In many fields, training 1 female physician produces 0.5 FTE physicians or less.  In my residency class, >75% of the female physicians work very part time or not at all. Most are married to high earners and like being with their kids, or doing research, or pharma consulting.  The marriage penalty in our tax code makes it highly disadvantageous for a second high earning spouse to work.

    Leave a comment:


  • artemis
    replied




    I think part of the change from “the olden days” to now is, fewer docs are owners and more are employees. In the good old days when you owned your practice it seemed like people did it longer due to a deeper commitment to patients, community, etc. I think now where most are employees it’s easier to walk away or go part time.
    Click to expand...


    I agree that's a big part of the change.  I also think the steady increase in what I call "bureaucratic nonsense" (stuff we have to do simply to meet some arbitrary requirement imposed by various outside entities in order to get paid or remain licensed, rather than because it actually improves patient care) is burning practitioners out faster, leading to shorter careers.  When every day at work starts feeling like standing in line at the DMV, why work longer than you absolutely have to?

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve
    replied





    The Dean of his medical school gave them a talk and said the average expected career length of current graduates is only 11 years!! 
    Click to expand…


    If this was Stanford or UCSF, it might be close to the truth. There are non-clinical careers in technology waiting for MD’s in the Bay area, or so I’ve read.

    For a standard physician far from silicon valley, I think the average career is still 30 years or more, at least for the traditional student who starts medical school in the early-to-mid twenties. Even I plan to put at least 12 years in, and I’m an extreme outlier.
    Click to expand...


    It is a midwestern state medical school that focuses on trying to produce primary care doctors.  I agree that a full career may be 30 years, but how does it alter the data if 20% of graduates never work more than part time and another significant group never does clinical work or drops out of clinical work after a short time?

    Leave a comment:


  • uptoolate
    replied
    Retired a week shy of 53.  It's hard to say and likely varies by specialty.  It's probably easier to work part-time at low volume in specialties like psychiatry or family practice but difficult to control volumes and retain technical skills and confidence in surgical and critical care specialties. In general, it seems to me that the new generation has better work life balance which could mean that they would retire earlier or possibly would have to work longer because of lower volumes over the course of their careers.  Very hard to know.

    Leave a comment:


  • Drsan1
    replied
    I think part of the change from "the olden days" to now is, fewer docs are owners and more are employees. In the good old days when you owned your practice it seemed like people did it longer due to a deeper commitment to patients, community, etc. I think now where most are employees it's easier to walk away or go part time. I don't know what the expectancy is but rarely do I see anyone at the hospital practicing over 60. As a hospitalist my retirement goal is around 55, but with FI as early as I can get it. I already work 7on/7off so actually have a lot of time in my off weeks to do "other things" I enjoy.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhysicianOnFIRE
    replied


    The Dean of his medical school gave them a talk and said the average expected career length of current graduates is only 11 years!!
    Click to expand...


    If this was Stanford or UCSF, it might be close to the truth. There are non-clinical careers in technology waiting for MD's in the Bay area, or so I've read.

    For a standard physician far from silicon valley, I think the average career is still 30 years or more, at least for the traditional student who starts medical school in the early-to-mid twenties. Even I plan to put at least 12 years in, and I'm an extreme outlier.

    Leave a comment:


  • pedsmd
    replied
    In pediatrics I don't know of too many people (either general peds or subspecialists) who retire early. Grant my field of knowledge is the east coast where COL is higher and salaries are lower. I do know people who phase out of clinical work as they get older but I don't know any "FIRE" types who are retiring at 50.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve
    replied
    My dad went to his 45th med school reunion.  The Dean of his medical school gave them a talk and said the average expected career length of current graduates is only 11 years!!  I don't know the methodology by which they arrived at this number, but it is alarmingly short.  The Dean stated the short time was due to the high number of people who graduate medical school and then only work part time, quickly drop out of clinical jobs, or never take a clinical job.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheHappyPhilosopher
    replied
    I don't know the answer to this question, but my plans are to bring down the average

    Leave a comment:


  • jz
    replied
    Looking backward on real life medical staff examples:

    Early retirees...........one wife, one house, radiology, plastic surgery,  fear of malpractice

    Bedraggled oldsters still shuffling on.........multiple wives, disruptive life events, orthopedics

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X