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  • #46




    Imagine the time spent on answers that could have been billable hours @300/hour doing our normals jobs. In the thread mentioned, OP didn’t seem appreciative of the answers or time people had spent to post the 6 or so pages of them.
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    I am a one finger typist and hence would like to be brief and to the point. Sometimes this comes across a blunt ( and some might think as mean). But I am not too much into niceties in a forum where sharp concise advice is often sought. I also don't have much patience in reading lengthy posts and wish they would fit half a computer screen or less. I made a comment on it to one poster, and hope he did not take it the wrong way.

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    • #47





      there was one closure that was over like how much to gift at a wedding though? that’s more like what i was talking about. 
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      Interesting – I was unaware of that one, either. Again, the boss said he was getting heated emails and closed it. Not sure I understand that myself. From what I can tell, you’re actually happy as peach pie with the lowly mods; it’s WCI’s thin skin that is the problem
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      Nah, like I said it's his site. My life is 100x better for finding WCI when I was a PGY2 or so, I don't really criticize the oracle.

      If anything without ever having met him it seems like Jim is kind of a no-BS guy who doesn't tolerate fools very well, that's why it kind of surprises me that this policy of getting emails is leading to thread closure, my guess would have been that he would invite the reader to not click that link.

      Some interesting stories about soccer and the military etc. I find that in medical education (more so at the graduate level since that's my world) you have basically 2 kinds of residents -- those who genuinely want to be told when they screw up and those who don't. Fortunately I am basically surrounded by option A but you occasionally meet someone of the other variety. I affectionately say of many residents "you can beat on them a little bit." By that I mean when they do something wrong or dangerous the good ones kind of want to be told about it and you don't need to sugar coat it for them. You can't kick them anywhere nearly as hard as they'll kick themselves afterwards. Those are the ones I don't spend much time worrying about.

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      • #48
        I guess I don't understand the people so hurt by an internet post that they email wci or someone else.

        Show me where the internet man hurt you

        The stuff here is extremely benign. People need to be better at taking criticism.

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        • #49




          I guess I don’t understand the people so hurt by an internet post that they email wci or someone else.

          Show me where the internet man hurt you

          The stuff here is extremely benign. People need to be better at taking criticism.
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          Hmmmmmmm.......After reading all these and reflecting (more self reflection) I think, Ok. Your right. Tell it like it is. If they can't take it, don't read it. It is free (and often very good) advice after all and no one is insulting anyones mother or anything, so I take it back. Gloves off.

           

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          • #50
            I don’t think this forum has a kindness problem at all

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            • #51




              I don’t think this forum has a kindness problem at all
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              I mean I guess it's all about your goals and what you want. If you want to throw up some idea and be told that you deserve it I'm sure there's a subreddit or Fb group out there for you.

              When I lecture residents I always try to give a disclaimer to point out where I'm coming from. I'm not Warren Buffett but I'm also not the guy who wants to buy you a steak at a chain place and talk to you about the "Seven Mistakes Doctors Make with Money."

              I tell them that I am going to give them the conservative, get-rich-slowly party line they would get on Bogleheads or here. I try to be up front with them that I'm not a debt guy, I'm not a leverage guy, and I'm not a speculation guy. Does it make sense to a keep your $200k in student loans if they are refi'ed at 2.4% b/c you can beat that investing? Yeah it does financially, but I'm not going to tell you to do that b/c see above. Not even making a value judgement at all just trying to give them the facts on the ground.

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              • #52
                I can’t believe that people would go running, in tears, to The WCI because they don’t like a response to a question they asked on a random internet forum.

                I don’t usually go at folks too hard.....  but sweet mother of god, what kind of entitled baby would do that?

                There is just no sugar-coating it.

                 

                 

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                • #53
                  I want to point out a couple of posts from that thread and have some of the other regular members comment on them:

                  "When OP seems set on a plan, as this one does, I try to not just post “he!l no!” even if that’s what I want to."

                  "im glad the OP is here to weigh in on our thoughts…." --->"Probably off to find a “more understanding” forum to post to…"

                  "The OP posted this on the WCI Facebook page. I wish them the best, but searching for someone to agree with a plan you already decided on is risky…"--->"Sort of akin to when mom wouldn’t let you go to your friends house, so you ask dad hoping for a different answer."

                  "From the title alone, this felt like a troll post. And with no further comments from OP, makes you wonder. Maybe 4chan got tired of trolling the usual suspects?"

                  "I don’t think you got attacked…unless you consider people who disagree with your opinion as attacking you."



                  "Attitude reeks from OP(s). Good luck to them with their soon-to-be 1.5 million dollar debt…"

                   


                  And before we start claiming this is a generational thing: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=217022

                  WCI's reply a few posts down as well.

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                  • #54




                    One of the keys of personal and financial freedom IMO is learning how not to to care what other people think.  Some of the keys of success in both medicine and personal growth (including finance) is learning from others mistakes and being able to take criticism to change your behavior while not letting it emotionally defeat you.

                    I know for myself, I am my own greatest critic.  The things that hurt me the most and that I react the most to are those things that deep down I already know are true.  When someone gets upset about something said on here (with the exception of those things that blatantly break the living room rule) it is probably because they are being forced to look in the mirror at their most unattractive angle.
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                    This may be one of the best things I've read on this forum.

                    If you come here looking for advice, then be okay when people don't agree with you. If you want someone to agree with your purchase, go to the seller.

                    Direct sentences require less words. They may not read with much compassion, but they get the point across.

                     

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                    • #55
                      @jhwkr542

                      I think Swedroe giving up posting at Bogleheads really has nothing in common with our bruhaha here. Swedroe was a highly paid, highly regarded professional who devoted lots of time and expertise and got treated like a piñata at Bogleheads over several years.

                      Our poster was an anonymous doc who did not find our backing for a terrible idea and was upset over it. Not apples and oranges, apples and alligators.

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                      • #56




                        @jhwkr542

                        I think Swedroe giving up posting at Bogleheads really has nothing in common with our bruhaha here. Swedroe was a highly paid, highly regarded professional who devoted lots of time and expertise and got treated like a piñata at Bogleheads over several years.

                        Our poster was an anonymous doc who did not find our backing for a terrible idea and was upset over it. Not apples and oranges, apples and alligators.
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                        I disagree. A person's accomplishments should not alter how they're treated, whether it's in person, online, over the phone, or via Morse code. Nor should the duration of the person's relationship affect treatment. And the poster here was not upset over the difference of opinions, nor was Swedroe as he pointed out. OP quote:

                        "I feel like I need to point out a some basic things to some of you about newcomers to this forum and basic decency. 1) I and others on this forum are doctors, not finance majors. It’s great that some of you know everything already but maybe don’t attack those of us who are just learning. If you feel triggered by our dumb questions then maybe just don’t respond."

                        To my point, I'd like to bring up the said posts that I think the OP here likely took offense to and see what the general feelings are over them.

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                        • #57




                          I want to point out a couple of posts from that thread and have some of the other regular members comment on them:
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                          If the point is to try to make those responses seem overly mean or aggressive, I'm going to disagree.

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                          • #58







                            I want to point out a couple of posts from that thread and have some of the other regular members comment on them:
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                            If the point is to try to make those responses seem overly mean or aggressive, I’m going to disagree.
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                            And that's fine. They were direct quotes with as little editing as possible (except to show a few comments and replies to give some context). I tried to give as little opinion on them as I could, but I know my pointing them out would imply I was defending the OP here, which was not my intent. If you read through that entire thread, most of the posts there are almost entirely neutral in tone.

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                            • #59
                              Yeah I didn't think they were mean or attacking either. But I have been around a lot of sarcastic people in my life and have grown a thick skin. I'm surprised at how thin skinned doctors can be.

                              As far as not being a finance major, at least when I matriculated you had to had done well in calculus to get into med school. Which is a lot higher level math than is needed not to make bad personal finance decisions. Doctors don't make bad financial decisions because they don't understand math.

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                              • #60
                                I don’t think anything that was said in that thread was mean -spirited, even though one of my posts was quoted by @jhwkr542, the apparent arbiter of all that is mean and inconsiderate. The posts were blunt and to the point, but not mean and no personal attacks were made.

                                The problem is that smart people don’t like being told that they’re wrong, no matter how nicely (or not) it is said. Smart people are used to being right, so when they’ve thought about something, even something not in their area of expertise, and bring their thought out plan to a group of outsiders (who are also very smart and probably smarter on the subject matter they’re presenting), and are then unanimously dismissed, they don’t take it well. In this case it was clearly a terrible idea, and after about four pages of the same advice and nary a reply or response from the OP to acknowledge or further defend their train of thought, what’s the point of every new poster saying the same thing that had been said repeatedly?

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