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  • #46




    Other than perhaps (and I mean perhaps) a few elite schools open doors that are worth it, especially if your child wants a career on Wall Street.  Other than that, where a child goes to college is unimportant in terms of eventual success.  Proof?   Take five people you respect highly in your community.   Do you know where any of them went to college?
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    i'm a little confused how whether i know where they went to college proves that specific colleges are or are not valuable.

     

     

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    • #47
      If you found out that the five people you most highly respect for competence and knowledge in your community all went to public colleges-would that be an influence?

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      • #48
        I acknowledge that there are five or ten schools in the country that probably open doors to opportunities and careers that are not available to students at "lesser" schools.

        There is also a "home town" advantage and alumni network in most states that can influence one's career.  For example, in Florida, a law degree from a well known Fla law school is probably a stronger "hire" advantage than one from an out of state school that is not one of the top ten.

        There is also the factor that a "great student" going to an Ivy League has a 50% chance of being the lower half of the class.  These kids don't do as well as matched kids (by GPA and SAT) who go to state schools.  This is well discussed in Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers.

         

        As a financial planner, I see many families either undersave for retirement or raid retirement savings to pay for a private but mediocre education for their children.  It is a shame.

         

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        • #49




          If you found out that the five people you most highly respect for competence and knowledge in your community all went to public colleges-would that be an influence?
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          uh...no?

          Honestly, this is a terrible line of reasoning. Any one persons network in the grand scheme of things (unless a world level politician) is so small as to be statistically insignificant and have zero predictive power.

          Is there a size limit to the community we're talking about? Does this have signal for a 40k size city vs. a 4M? I mean this is just rife with error and bias. People also get lucky and in smaller locales family/business ties are important and have similar effects. This is just not a useful tactic to do anything with.

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          • #50
            I guess we can disagree on this.   I've made it an interest to make a judgement on how good various peer physicians, financial planners, attorneys etc are throughout life and will then ask where they went to college.  I find zero correlation between quality people and "name" colleges.  It's the person, not the school

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            • #51
              Does anyone actually believe that the teaching at Harvard is any better than a state school or even a community college. You’re paying solely for the brand and to be surrounded by other like minded students. College is kind of a overpriced scam.

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              • #52




                Does anyone actually believe that the teaching at Harvard is any better than a state school or even a community college.
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                Yes.

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                • #53




                  Does anyone actually believe that the teaching at Harvard is any better than a state school or even a community college. You’re paying solely for the brand and to be surrounded by other like minded students. College is kind of a overpriced scam.
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                  for some things probably not better.  i believe it is harder to define better in a lot of the social sciences and arts.  i also think as you get deeper and deeper into your field, it is possible that harvard and co offers better teaching.

                  jmo

                  ymmv

                   

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                  • #54




                    As a financial planner, I see many families either undersave for retirement or raid retirement savings to pay for a private but mediocre education for their children.  It is a shame.

                     
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                    That gave me pause, seemed interesting, and is also totally believable.

                    The genius seems to be in the marketing to the kids -- dorms, gyms, stadia etc. The experience is heavily sold and becomes like any other consumer good.

                    If I have the money I think I'll be fine sending my kids to a big name school, but it will not be with an open-ended invitation to fail classes and get busted for Minor in Possession of Alcohol.

                     

                    I'm always kind of amazed by how few people seem to understand what I would consider to be fairly basic cultural references or concepts. If I send my kid to Ivy+ I really hope they come out with some concept of Shakespeare, Bible as lit, American history etc.

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                    • #55




                      I guess we can disagree on this.   I’ve made it an interest to make a judgement on how good various peer physicians, financial planners, attorneys etc are throughout life and will then ask where they went to college.  I find zero correlation between quality people and “name” colleges.  It’s the person, not the school
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                      And the size of your personal study is what compared to the population? Is it representative of anything other than local factors? Im going to guess you dont have a spreadsheet with things meticulously tracked and calculated and its just a long running impression you have.

                      This process while at times useful is guaranteed to be riddled with biased mental accounting.

                      These types of interactions can lead one to do actual studies and confirm/disconfirm your hypothesis, but its slightly improper to simply assume the end point.

                      Obviously there are too many people in all of these roles and positions for a single school to be SD's better than the alternatives in actual practice. However, we know the network effects are definitely different and outcomes if pursued can be different. Just because someone went to harvard doesnt mean they dont want a quiet rural life and just because someone else went to iowa comm college doesnt mean they cant aspire to be president. Some paths are just lubricated and others arent.

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                      • #56







                        As a financial planner, I see many families either undersave for retirement or raid retirement savings to pay for a private but mediocre education for their children.  It is a shame.

                         
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                        That gave me pause, seemed interesting, and is also totally believable.

                        The genius seems to be in the marketing to the kids — dorms, gyms, stadia etc. The experience is heavily sold and becomes like any other consumer good.

                        If I have the money I think I’ll be fine sending my kids to a big name school, but it will not be with an open-ended invitation to fail classes and get busted for Minor in Possession of Alcohol.

                         

                        I’m always kind of amazed by how few people seem to understand what I would consider to be fairly basic cultural references or concepts. If I send my kid to Ivy+ I really hope they come out with some concept of Shakespeare, Bible as lit, American history etc.
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                        This is also an unknowable thing at the time of purchase. It may turn out to be amazing, and it certainly cant be tested against sending that same kid to State U. This is a projection of your personal opinions onto these situations. While likely to mostly be correct, so what?

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                        • #57
                          Not sure about Harvard. I think at these tiny random private colleges if anything the teaching is worse. In general there is no quality control for profs due to tenure. Most only care about research. Just like med school you pretty much use book to teach yourself often times. Vast majority don't care about teaching.

                          I will never understand tiny private colleges. Crappy opppurtunities, nobody has ever heard of them, and you get the reward of 50k a year or whatever. For me it's either state school or high level places, ivies etc.

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                          • #58
                            College is similar to weddings. We have romanticized it and it's grown to be a monster because people care more about feelings such as the "experience" than what it actually does for you.

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                            • #59




                              I guess we can disagree on this.   I’ve made it an interest to make a judgement on how good various peer physicians, financial planners, attorneys etc are throughout life and will then ask where they went to college.  I find zero correlation between quality people and “name” colleges.  It’s the person, not the school
                              Click to expand...


                              i agree it is the person that is the primary driver of success.  however, i don't agree that my personal knowledge of where they went to college has anything to do with assessing the value of the college's education.  it seems one degree of separation more than even asking whether where they went to college made a difference, which is also not clear (imo), but i believe is consistent with your observation.  statistically, if state u has 20,000 graduates a year, some will be wildly successful.  generally again, i believe that is due to hard work and smartitude.  however, i also believe a smattering of luck was involved in many of the success stories.

                              i also don't know whether the criteria i would pick to highly respect someone is predetermines the answers.  just to play the game and try not to cherry pick, my closest house neighbors-  harvard, harvard, yale, univ of illinois engineering (claims to be top 10 school).  they are lovely neighbors, and successful at their jobs and what most people would define as self made financial successes, but i don't know what criteria would be used for highly respected.  they could say the same about me. 

                              i think a lot of the definitions of success of colleges come from income studies.  i believe they generally support the value of ivy league education.  but my personal value system includes income at smaller proportion of success than i think the surveys do.  agree income is a more quantifiable metric and of some value in decisions about college selection.

                              ymmv.

                              jmo.

                               

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                              • #60
                                Fatlittlepig went to top ten us news ranked school. Do you think that matters at all? LOL definitely not. Do you think I learned organic chemistry or biology or intro to Shakespeare any better than someone who went to UCLA or UC Santa Barbara. I doubt it. Do you think fatlittlepig even remembers or uses anything he learned in college? LOL, Here are some classes I took, fluid mechanics, multi variable calculus, macro and micro economics, intro to religion, blah blah. Top tier schools in many cases have professors who don’t really care about teaching, you’re paying for the brand name and to be surrounded by a cohort of other high achievers that’s it.

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