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Tiger parents: what job do you want your kid to end up doing?

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  • #16
    It's all about balance. Average person and high school kid could probably work a bit harder without giving up much enjoyment. But the tiger moms take it too far. Too lazy is a bad thing but a 24/7 regimented schedule for a 16 yr old and them talking antidepressants is also a bad thing. I think most kids fall more towards lazy side but you can definitely go too far the other way.

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    • #17
      Whatever they want.. great words by ENT

      Personally I think NP by age 23-24 and hitting 120-150k in a rural area with dad helping fund some retirement from 15 years old on will set most up pretty well in a solid balanced career path

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      • #18
        There is such a fine line between good parenting, being overbearing, and being a best friend. When kids are in their teens, their natural instinct is to push back against whatever the parent wants them to do. Not trying to play analyst, but I think it’s part of maturation and the process of becoming independent. So the persuasion and pushing has to be carefully undertaken. Some parents are naturals at it but I think most of us aren’t.

        To me, the key is to really listen to your child and make them feel part of the process rather than pushing. Pushing seems to work with “tiger moms”, but that is ingrained in a culture not inherent in the American system. Children brought up in the “American way” tend to push back in the opposite direction, unless they are totally pliable, which is not an enviable trait, either. Parenting is, imo, one of the hardest skills to develop and succeed at because children do not come with an instruction manual. Every one is different.
        Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

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        • #19
          Not a tiger parent, but know plenty and the harvard/ivy league thing seems more about bragging rights, so that they can say their kids goes/went to harvard, etc.  Then they want their kid to be a doctors, engineer, etc. for more bragging rights.  From the tiger parents I know, it doesn't seem like they really have a plan of school/career trajectory, rather it's just having a certain goal and their kids meeting it. Between my spouse and I, we have been to an Ivy league, top-tier state school and mid/low-tier state school, and we couldn't really care much what school our kid goes to.  Anecdotally, amongst friends and collegues within and outside of medicine, we have seen little evidence to prove an ivy league education provides a significant advantage, at least for most students.  If anything, nowadays where you almost need that advanced degree to separate yourself others, maybe an ivy league grad school or big name grad school in your respective field is a bigger factor.  For our kids, we just want them to be smart (good decision making and EQ), happy and good people.  Job title or salary isn't a big deal, whether they want to be a doctor, teacher or stay-at-home-spouse to a loving family.  At the very least we hope to leave a solid legacy so that they don't have to worry too much about money, or at least retirement money.

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          • #20
            Timely article about modern, relentless parenting in the NY Times:

            https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/25/upshot/the-relentlessness-of-modern-parenting.html

            We aren’t the most intense parents but in full disclosure, we come from cultural backgrounds where we fit the stereotype.

            In my opinion, it’s not about the jobs our kids will get. It’s more of a sociocultural fear. I view modern American society as a dangerous and chaotic place for young people and believe without firm limits and guidance the risks and temptations are likely to lead to underachieving relative to their potential, or more catastrophic results like drug experimentation, or early pregnancy.

            Thus our drive is less about achieving certain financial goals and more about developing a framework for self control. The expectations we have of our kids are not that they be doctors or CEOs but that they understand how to compete; understand how to make the right choices; understand how to be resilient, win or lose; understand how to learn; love to learn; understand kindness, empathy, and generosity; respect for G-d and family; etc, etc, etc. In order to achieve this in a world filled with social media, pornographization, celebrity worship, cannabis legalization, immersive and intentionally addictive screens/games/VR, and even a President who would have been right at home in Idiocracy, a certain degree of protection and direction is required. To this end our kids are somewhat overscheduled, and by dint of a variety of factors outside of our control as well as certain lifestyle choices we have made, we end up spending a lot of time driving them around. We have family dinners together 6 nights per week. We are very selective about their friends and who they can spend the night with. We know these parents well; we know if they have firearms at home or cannabis in their nightstand. The list goes on and on.

            From an evolutionary standpoint you could say by having 1 or 2 kids we have all our eggs (and sperm) in a very small number of baskets, and thus we should invest all of our energy in ensuring the success of those 1 or 2 kids. Perhaps when families had 8 or 14 kids it was different.

            Another recent article in the Times describes the growing digital divide between rich and poor kids. It’s not what was once feared - that rich kids would have access to the internet and computing while poor kids wouldn’t - but in fact quite the opposite: rich parents are severely limiting screen time while poor kids are having unfettered access, despite growing evidence that screen exposure especially at an early age may alter brain development as well as lead to reduced verbal fluency.

            https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/style/digital-divide-screens-schools.html

            Rich parents expect their kids to be academically advanced when they hit kindergarten. It has long been so and we’re not about to let any ************************ screen screw that up:

            https://www.amazon.com/Meaningful-Differences-Everyday-Experience-American/dp/1557661979

            (A real tiger parent reads this book before conceiving, and as a result talks incessantly with their child, even in the womb)

            Now we do value freedom, with limits. Our kids are encouraged to run around outside on our 2 acres, climb the trees, fall down, break an elbow, etc. Dig in the dirt, manage your own garden plot, etc. Play ball, play hide and seek, shoot nerf guns. INVITE THE NEIGHBORS TO OUR HOUSE but please don’t go to theirs until we’ve met the parents, talked to them, done the background check, had a PI follow them to work and back a few times... No, we prefer they play in our space, have sleepovers at our house where we can enforce the NO SCREENS IN BED rule and collect phones and tablets at 8 pm.

            I agree, it’s exhausting. But the world is clearly more complex than it was 30 years ago or 60 years ago, thanks to technology, and we have to evolve as a species to ensure our progeny survive and thrive.

            The fact the new reality exacerbates the wealth/income/racial/gender/whatever gap is unfortunate but, frankly, NOT MY PROBLEM. My problem is my kids. Their greatgrandparents and grandparents worked very hard and made incredible sacrifices to make opportunities available to their children and we will do the same, and they will KNOW their opportunities are a result of generations of hard work and sacrifice so that they will do the same someday, too. Irvin Yalom, MD describes the concept of “rippling” in his book, “Staring at the Sun,” in which he articulates that we hope to influence future generations with our good deeds but by 2 or 3 generations out, no one alive will remember us; yet that doesn’t invalidate the concept, as our behaviors influence our children in a way we hope will allow them to influence theirs, and so forth, like a stone dropped into a pond whose ripples extend out far beyond the initial splash, and persist even when that splash has disappeared completely.

            Doing good deeds, transmitting our beliefs from generation to generation, teaching our children are absolutely fundamental to our identity, our faith, our culture. Modern times demand modern practices, and so we respond accordingly, and unapologetically.

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            • #21
              Agree with FIREshrink. But a PI following the parents? That’s some intense stuff. How does this lead you to know if they’re smoking up in the home, have a gun in the home, etc.? I respect the desire to know the environment your kids are going into, but I’m legitimately curious about this PI thing and how you investigate an environment and/or people in an efficient manner.

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              • #22
                “I think if you approach your kid(s) with the mindset of how to maximize their long-term potential then you’re setting them up for success. “

                That is the career I want for my kids. Given that, what is the “value of prestige”? By far the competition and costs increase because of definite impacts on the “next step”. Shelf life of prestige is extremely short and is diminishing .

                Would Harvard undergrad influence residency or fellowship decisions? How valuable are undergraduate networking connections?

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                • #23
                  hoping the PI thing is a joke thrown in there for levity. agree with most of the points though.

                  How are you supposed to know if people have guns at home? You ask them? I would think someone who meets your scrutiny to have your kids over would know how to properly protect a weapon from being used by a child if that is your concern.

                  I think parenting is a tremendously underrated aspect of responsibility in our modern world. I'm not a parent but I would imagine it would be insanely difficult with continual second guessing if a certain action is the right thing for the kid. I think if more people took responsibility for their kids and raising them properly our country would be a lot better off.

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                  • #24




                    Agree with FIREshrink. But a PI following the parents? That’s some intense stuff. How does this lead you to know if they’re smoking up in the home, have a gun in the home, etc.? I respect the desire to know the environment your kids are going into, but I’m legitimately curious about this PI thing and how you investigate an environment and/or people in an efficient manner.
                    Click to expand...




                     

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                    • #25




                      hoping the PI thing is a joke thrown in there for levity. agree with most of the points though.

                      How are you supposed to know if people have guns at home? You ask them? I would think someone who meets your scrutiny to have your kids over would know how to properly protect a weapon from being used by a child if that is your concern.

                      I think parenting is a tremendously underrated aspect of responsibility in our modern world. I’m not a parent but I would imagine it would be insanely difficult with continual second guessing if a certain action is the right thing for the kid. I think if more people took responsibility for their kids and raising them properly our country would be a lot better off.
                      Click to expand...


                      absolutely we ask. either way it leads to a discussion. we aren’t completely opposed to gun ownership, but guns as tools are different than guns as a hobby; we talk about storage and let it be known our kids have no knowledge of safe gun use and therefore can’t be around them in any way.

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                      • #26
                        so if someone has a gun in a safe you're not ok with the kids being there?

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                        • #27
                          Success is very subjective.  I wish my kids to be happy well adjusted adults and whatever job makes them happy as long as they aren't hurting someone like a hired killer or something like that.

                          For conventional success , from what I've seen your parents money and connections are about 1,000 times more important than which college you go to.

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                          • #28




                            Success is very subjective.  I wish my kids to be happy well adjusted adults and whatever job makes them happy as long as they aren’t hurting someone like a hired killer or something like that.

                            For conventional success , from what I’ve seen your parents money and connections are about 1,000 times more important than which college you go to.
                            Click to expand...


                            and hard work is 1000x more important than that stuff.

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                            • #29
                              Hard work is very important too of course. As long as the kid can still enjoy the process of hard work and what they are doing and not drive themselves nuts with the outcome. That is my approach at least. There are many different ways to do it and many different personality types of children.

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                              • #30
                                Omg that nyt article was exhausting to read, as are some of these comments, as are these parents I've met IRL. My son is doing a science fair project for the first time this year ( fifth grade). He's doing it with a partner and this kid's mom is stressing me out! I could barely get her out of the house to let them work because she clearly wanted to monitor every.little.move they made. The instructions she was giving were so intense! She wanted to pick him up as soon as they were done working ( it was a Sunday afternoon for crying out loud) and wanted a copy of the work that was done. I was planning to go running in the neighborhood with my husband while they worked, but it turns out this kid had NEVER been left at home alone, even for 5 minutes and I knew his mom would lose it if she found out I left them unsupervised. I ended up proofing their work simply because I was worried it wouldn't be up to her expectations. The whole thing was ridiculous and I just couldn't help thinking that if I felt this stressed by her pressure, I couldn't imagine how it felt to her son. Needless to say, I take a less intense approach to parenting. I provide support but also allow for failure. I want my son to have something he wants, that he has learned to work hard for and to learn that he is not entitled to things just for showing up. Hard work with out any passion or drive behind it ( besides pleasing parents) seems like a quick road to burn out and unhappiness. I'll let you know how he turns out in the next 10 years . . .


                                ***I will say that I know I'm coming from a privileged place, raising boys, who are white. Without wanting to start a debate I'll just say if I was not coming from that place, I could very well take a more involved approach to parenting so in reality I think I'm less judgy about this than I might seem. I know most parents are just trying to do their best for their kids.

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