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  • #16




    MBA seems to be the go-to, right?  several threads about that here and I think on the blog.  CPE seems narrowly useful.  JD, CPA are widely known and more generally applicable.  can’t go wrong with some extra training.  certainly shows motivation…or a complete ineptitude to practice medicine/surgery…

    but BOHICA because WTF: we all know the lettered bureaucracy approach to medicine is FUBAR

     
    Click to expand...


    Why are docs getting CPA? Certified Accountant?

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    • #17










      Leadership not letters. Just lead, letters are silly nonsense . Leading by example is not the best way………it is the only way.
      Letters?!! another example of smoke without fire
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      I have to agree….

      Start taking on some leadership roles, find out if you medical staff follows… if not, then why?

      There are some great leadership courses you can take that would not add letters, to help refine your skills but docs need to trust their leaders, know that they have their backs, and will fight for them. Show them this and they will follow.
      Click to expand…


      I think you need to give a leadership course to my institutional leaders……
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      Happy to!

      I did a 360 degree review this year... where they divided my colleagues up into categories (Physician Leaders... which meant MEC members,  Executive leaders, and Manager/Directors). Of course, as a doc, I was most concerned about my MEC colleagues and how they rated me.  In the "Trust" category, they rated me a 5 out of 5 from EVERYONE on MEC. Yay!  They see me being logical, holding people back when people want to throw others under the bus, taking complaints seriously, and getting $h!t done. IMHO, that is how to lead. The docs definitely rated me the highest overall and the managers/directors and executive team rated me well but not as well as docs. To me, that means I am serving the docs, as a CMO should. Unfortunately for my CEO, I am not a "yes" girl. I push back when needed.

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      • #18




        I went to go find you a post about just that from side hustle scrubs but he seemed to shut down the website. Too bad. He was funny.
        Click to expand...


        anybody know what happened?  he went from 3 posts/wk to zero.

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        • #19
          He did that post on wci this past winter. He got a ton of flack. Then disappeared. I hope he makes a comeback but it doesn't look good. He has a refreshing view of life and medicine. Some of his stuff was really funny.

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          • #20




            He did that post on wci this past winter. He got a ton of flack. Then disappeared. I hope he makes a comeback but it doesn’t look good. He has a refreshing view of life and medicine. Some of his stuff was really funny.
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            SHS, if you're reading, yeah, I liked your stuff too!

            Talk about cold turkey.

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            • #21
              yes  I liked him also.

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              • #22
                Well, that is the fate of most blogs.

                Maybe he just found an even better side hustle and he's working on that.

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                • #23
                  a serious response to the OP, here is how you get ahead in admin:

                  1) Resist the urge to be the smartest person in the room -- at all times

                  2) Listen more than you talk, a lot

                  3) Figure out what your boss is doing and how to help them do it, don't spin your wheels on your own pet projects especially if no one above you cares about them. Make your boss look good.

                  4) Respond to emails quickly but don't type very much, important conversations are for phone and in person

                  5) Identify solutions, not problems. If you identify a problem you need to be willing to be part of the solution, otherwise you are complaining and there are enough people doing that to keep your boss busy already

                  6) Try to keep things off your boss's plate

                  7) Show up to things on time and execute on tasks you are given

                  8) Listen to people underneath you, appreciate them, and care about what they have to say. If you have a chance to make their lives easier, take it.

                  If you do that and you are a good doc you will rise very quickly, then let your hospital send you to get an MBA on their dime!!!

                   

                   

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                  • #24
                    MHA can also be useful. You should get your feet wet in admin as MPMD suggested and if you find you enjoy it get the healthcare system to pay for the MBA or MHA.

                    Agree you can be a great leader without the degree...but the degree probably helps when you are sitting at the table with the other executives that have the business degrees but not your medical knowledge. They are going to be making an argument for something that you think isn't a great idea for patient care or for staff wellbeing (and so indirectly, for patient care) and if you can't understand and match their lingo you will have a slim chance of persuading them otherwise.

                    One of the great things about financial independence and admin roles is you can really push for the wellbeing of the staff, who often don't feel like they can do so themselves.

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                    • #25


                      He did that post on wci this past winter. He got a ton of flack.
                      Click to expand...


                      I liked that post. For physicians who work less than 60 hours per week without nights or hospital call, the career is much better than the overwhelming majority of alternatives. For those who work 60-80 hours/week, plus nights and hospital call, not so much.

                      I've had the latter for most of my career and could never tolerate it for more than 3-4 years at a go. I burned out. Now I have the former and prefer it to a cushy financial services career.

                      Working as an equity analyst was enjoyable and laid back, but I was constrained by my overlords. That was fair because they paid me, but I didn't have control over my professional life. As a physician I do have that control.

                      My current overlords want me to produce revenue and generate high patient ratings. In their eyes, that's my job. In my eyes, my job is to provide outstanding pt care and I believe I do that. No one interferes with my decisions regarding patient care, so I have control over my professional life. I'm a simple man; with that plus enough time to exercise and adequate sleep -- I'm good.

                      It helps to read an article reinforcing how good I/we have it. That's part of the reason that I like this forum. Most of the posters seem happy with their careers, unlike on KevinMD or Sermo. That lifts my spirits rather than depressing them.

                      I wasn't familiar with Side Hustle until I looked up his post after reading your comment, but Side Hustle, if you're reading this, nice work.
                      Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

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                      • #26





                        He did that post on wci this past winter. He got a ton of flack. 
                        Click to expand…


                        I liked that post. For physicians who work less than 60 hours per week without nights or hospital call, the career is much better than the overwhelming majority of alternatives. For those who work 60-80 hours/week, plus nights and hospital call, not so much.

                        I’ve had the latter for most of my career and could never tolerate it for more than 3-4 years at a go. I burned out. Now I have the former and prefer it to a cushy financial services career.

                        Working as an equity analyst was enjoyable and laid back, but I was constrained by my overlords. That was fair because they paid me, but I didn’t have control over my professional life. As a physician I do have that control.

                        My current overlords want me to produce revenue and generate high patient ratings. In their eyes, that’s my job. In my eyes, my job is to provide outstanding pt care and I believe I do that. No one interferes with my decisions regarding patient care, so I have control over my professional life. I’m a simple man; with that plus enough time to exercise and adequate sleep — I’m good.

                        It helps to read an article reinforcing how good I/we have it. That’s part of the reason that I like this forum. Most of the posters seem happy with their careers, unlike on KevinMD or Sermo. That lifts my spirits rather than depressing them.

                        I wasn’t familiar with Side Hustle until I looked up his post after reading your comment, but Side Hustle, if you’re reading this, nice work.
                        Click to expand...


                        can you link the post? I can't find it.

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                        • #27








                          He did that post on wci this past winter. He got a ton of flack. 
                          Click to expand…


                          I liked that post. For physicians who work less than 60 hours per week without nights or hospital call, the career is much better than the overwhelming majority of alternatives. For those who work 60-80 hours/week, plus nights and hospital call, not so much.

                          I’ve had the latter for most of my career and could never tolerate it for more than 3-4 years at a go. I burned out. Now I have the former and prefer it to a cushy financial services career.

                          Working as an equity analyst was enjoyable and laid back, but I was constrained by my overlords. That was fair because they paid me, but I didn’t have control over my professional life. As a physician I do have that control.

                          My current overlords want me to produce revenue and generate high patient ratings. In their eyes, that’s my job. In my eyes, my job is to provide outstanding pt care and I believe I do that. No one interferes with my decisions regarding patient care, so I have control over my professional life. I’m a simple man; with that plus enough time to exercise and adequate sleep — I’m good.

                          It helps to read an article reinforcing how good I/we have it. That’s part of the reason that I like this forum. Most of the posters seem happy with their careers, unlike on KevinMD or Sermo. That lifts my spirits rather than depressing them.

                          I wasn’t familiar with Side Hustle until I looked up his post after reading your comment, but Side Hustle, if you’re reading this, nice work.
                          Click to expand…


                          can you link the post? I can’t find it.
                          Click to expand...


                          Here you go: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/stop-whining-about-job-satisfaction/
                          Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

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                          • #28
                            That was a great post. I thought it was kind of fitting that people who complain about how tough docs have it also complained about someone saying that docs don't have it so bad.

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                            • #29




                              That was a great post. I thought it was kind of fitting that people who complain about how tough docs have it also complained about someone saying that docs don’t have it so bad.
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                              I agree. I think people need to chill out and come back to reality.

                              I would love to be a fly on the wall in a blue collar bar where a physician was complaining about his job to roofers and mechanics.

                               

                              "Now we have to check this box to show that we asked everyone if they have had any falls in the past year.  I swear if they add any more clicks I am going to quit!"

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                              • #30
                                I don’t think it was the burnout post which got him flack. It was the one where he wallowed in the idiocy of the general public and inefficiency of our healthcare system, both of which many of us try to fight on a regular basis.

                                He did offer a fresh perspective. Though I think the aforementioned post could have easily been passed around to a national Academy or employer and down came the hammer.

                                As for the OPs question, see MPMDs post. An MBA is eye opening. But don’t do it on your dime. Most MD leaders are cultivated internally.

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