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  • #31
    Is there ANYTHING you can buy as a collectible that is a good investment?

    The only thing I can think of as possibilities are truly fine art like Sotheby's auctions, a few brands of extremely high end watches such as vintage Patek Phillipe, and meticulously maintained classic vehicles that you plan to continue to maintain meticulously.

    Comment


    • #32
      Excellent topic. I have been wondering about the financial implications of gun ownership myself but hadn't worked up the courage to ask the forum.

      In addition, this is a friendly reminder to be friendly. Generally, we keep things pretty apolitical around here. Gosh, guns can be such an explosive topic  

      Comment


      • #33




        Is there ANYTHING you can buy as a collectible that is a good investment?

        The only thing I can think of as possibilities are truly fine art like Sotheby’s auctions, a few brands of extremely high end watches such as vintage Patek Phillipe, and meticulously maintained classic vehicles that you plan to continue to maintain meticulously.
        Click to expand...


        Even there, the taxation on collectibles is worse than long term capital gains.  Furthermore, you need to store, insure, maintain, appraise, etc.

        Some ultra-high worth individuals have done well collecting a large position in a particular artist, bidding up the price on a few pieces to hitherto unseen levels, then reaping the rewards of the newly sky high value of the rest of their collection.  Kind of like bidding up the price on your own tulip bulbs.  (Likely not sustainable long term.)

        Personally I think the better strategy is to buy a few early pieces by freshmen at a few of the really big art schools like UCLA before folks get famous.  Obviously a speculative play, but if you find something you wouldn't mind hanging on your wall and it comes from an undergrad at one of the top five schools that tend to produce the really high dollar studio exhibiting art students, why not roll the dice on the 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 chance that it might be worth a lot one day?  If you like the piece anyway, why not get the free lotto ticket?

        Comment


        • #34




          Is there ANYTHING you can buy as a collectible that is a good investment?

          The only thing I can think of as possibilities are truly fine art like Sotheby’s auctions, a few brands of extremely high end watches such as vintage Patek Phillipe, and meticulously maintained classic vehicles that you plan to continue to maintain meticulously.
          Click to expand...


          Actually, back to the coin example, there have been articles published in respected business journals that suggest that rare coins CAN be a good investment, equity like returns and completely uncorrelated with stocks and other traditional investments, especially when they are held for long periods of time. My guess is that other collectibles probably share this, too.

          The problem with coins (and collectibles more generally) is that they require knowledge, experience, talent, and connections to acquire, and the average bloke who stumbles into coins usually breaks even or loses money. The typical markup for coins is generally 15-20% (think of paying that as a commission every time you made a purchase), and this is difficult to overcome. Additionally, selling requires knowledge and connections, too. You really have to become an expert (virtually a dealer) to make this work, and in this case, your investment has become a job.

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          • #35




            I’d always held the view of collectors, of any sort, as miserable narrowly-focused fetishists… I used to like writing instruments, but I never collected them for the sake of collecting them, I wanted what I considered to be supremely functional. Then I got into certain kinds of rugs from tribes in the Caucasus and Afghanistan, and I came to recognize some of those material-accumulation/fetishistic impulses in myself. For example, seeing a particularly attractive and fine Shirvan rug and thinking, this is different enough from the common design that I’d like to have this kind in addition to the usual type.

            Ah well, ‘nothing human is alien to me’.
            Click to expand...


            In the past I used to collect cheap watches, and some antique ones but I have given it up. My current collection (? hoarder) fetishes are

            1. Drug company pens. Could never resist them though I hardly used them. At one point I had thousands but the ink dried up on most of them and had to throw them away. I still collect them from non-pharma companies that are allowed to given them away.

            2. Camera lenses. Buy the Nikon lenses because they were on sale at B & H and Adorama. It is actually a disease called NAS (Nikon acquisition syndrome) that afflicts Nikon owners. Luckily I avoided buying the big guns - the 500 and 600 mm lenses. Always got the professional version of the lenses because I could afford them and felt it might give better results ( ah, the stupid thinking in someone like me with no talent).

             

             

            Comment


            • #36




              Is there ANYTHING you can buy as a collectible that is a good investment?

              The only thing I can think of as possibilities are truly fine art like Sotheby’s auctions, a few brands of extremely high end watches such as vintage Patek Phillipe, and meticulously maintained classic vehicles that you plan to continue to maintain meticulously.
              Click to expand...


              Even the examples you give aren't guaranteed to hold their value (much less continue to appreciate) in the long term.  Artists can go in and out of fashion, and the younger generations are likely to be less interested in cars and watches than our generation is (just as they've lost interest in antique furniture).  It seems to me that most collectibles hit a peak value from which they then decline (either slowly or rapidly, depending on the type of collectible).  That makes any sort of collectible an iffy store of value for the long term.

              Comment


              • #37













                Fatlittlepig is in favor of repeal of 2nd amend. Time for country to modernize.
                Click to expand…


                Was hoping to keep politics out of the discussion.  Maybe this should have been about a collection of POGS instead of guns.
                Click to expand…


                Saying “who needs 100 guns” is inherently political.

                I imagine WCI forum will be a pretty civil discussion though.
                Click to expand…


                “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

                Yep sounds like something which applies to 2018. LOL.

                this stuff was written when our country was young and vulnerable. Without a large military we needed a method to mobilize people with arms. strange to see physicians who are trained to protect sanctity of life not “get it”. gun violence is out of control.

                 
                Click to expand...


                Not its not, you just watch too much cable news

                 

                 

                Comment


                • #38




                   

                  Personally I think the better strategy is to buy a few early pieces by freshmen at a few of the really big art schools like UCLA before folks get famous.  Obviously a speculative play, but if you find something you wouldn’t mind hanging on your wall and it comes from an undergrad at one of the top five schools that tend to produce the really high dollar studio exhibiting art students, why not roll the dice on the 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 chance that it might be worth a lot one day?  If you like the piece anyway, why not get the free lotto ticket?
                  Click to expand...


                  Wouldn't you guess that chance to be more like 1:10,000?

                  Comment


                  • #39

























                    Fatlittlepig is in favor of repeal of 2nd amend. Time for country to modernize.
                    Click to expand…


                    Was hoping to keep politics out of the discussion.  Maybe this should have been about a collection of POGS instead of guns.
                    Click to expand…


                    Saying “who needs 100 guns” is inherently political.

                    I imagine WCI forum will be a pretty civil discussion though.
                    Click to expand…


                    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

                    Yep sounds like something which applies to 2018. LOL.

                    this stuff was written when our country was young and vulnerable. Without a large military we needed a method to mobilize people with arms. strange to see physicians who are trained to protect sanctity of life not “get it”. gun violence is out of control.

                     
                    Click to expand…


                    Keep poking and someone may bite.
                    Click to expand…


                    I’m close to biting, but I know he’s just a troll looking for a fight, so I’ll resist
                    Click to expand…


                    nah not looking for a fight, just expressing a correct opinion.
                    Click to expand…


                    This is as much an oxymoron as “alternative facts.”
                    Click to expand...


                    Love it how he says he's not looking for a fight yet is clearly looking for one.  Who needs 100 guns when all you need is two?

                    Comment


                    • #40


                      Some ultra-high worth individuals have done well collecting a large position in a particular artist, bidding up the price on a few pieces to hitherto unseen levels, then reaping the rewards of the newly sky high value of the rest of their collection. Kind of like bidding up the price on your own tulip bulbs. (Likely not sustainable long term.) Personally I think the better strategy is to buy a few early pieces by freshmen at a few of the really big art schools like UCLA before folks get famous. Obviously a speculative play, but if you find something you wouldn’t mind hanging on your wall and it comes from an undergrad at one of the top five schools that tend to produce the really high dollar studio exhibiting art students, why not roll the dice on the 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 chance that it might be worth a lot one day? If you like the piece anyway, why not get the free lotto ticket?
                      Click to expand...


                      Reminds me of the TV series I saw -Trust - which details the life history of Paul Getty and how he liked to collect art but somehow did not want to pay ransom for the release of his grandson. Anyone see that?

                      But neither he nor the person buying the UCLA freshmen art pieces will experience the high valuations and fortunes from the art pieces. By the time it appreciates we might be old or gone. The only one to enjoy the fruits of the Sotheby auction would be the children / grandchildren.

                      Comment


                      • #41


                        Love it how he says he’s not looking for a fight yet is clearly looking for one. Who needs 100 guns when all you need is two?
                        Click to expand...


                        Ah, looks like the young Ahnold  

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Knowing that something is worth something can be the hardest part. After going through my late father's belongings, I discovered a well worn, discontinued, non-working handgun, a Charter Arms Bulldog. I presumed it was valueless but I listed it on a gun auction website anyway. I was shocked to see the price skyrocket. I inquired with the winning bidder about the appeal of this gun. It was a hot commodity because the Bulldog's frame was the base of the Blade Runner's gun. Had it not been for the movie, this hunk of metal would have been just that.

                          Charter Arms reintroduced the Bulldog model several years later, so the high commodity price I received, was a fortuitous moment in time. Today someone can purchase a new Bulldog for less than the winning bidder paid for my father's broken gun.

                          Timing is everything.

                          Comment


                          • #43




                            Knowing that something is worth something can be the hardest part. After going through my late father’s belongings, I discovered a well worn, discontinued, non-working handgun, a Charter Arms Bulldog. I presumed it was valueless but I listed it on a gun auction website anyway. I was shocked to see the price skyrocket. I inquired with the winning bidder about the appeal of this gun. It was a hot commodity because the Bulldog’s frame was the base of the Blade Runner’s gun. Had it not been for the movie, this hunk of metal would have been just that.

                            Charter Arms reintroduced the Bulldog model several years later, so the high commodity price I received, was a fortuitous moment in time. Today someone can purchase a new Bulldog for less than the winning bidder paid for my father’s broken gun.

                            Timing is everything.
                            Click to expand...


                            Yes, that's the thing about collectibles, too. Ideally, you should sell them before you die. Your heirs are far less likely to see top dollar, and in many cases will get taken to the cleaners.

                            Comment


                            • #44






















                              Fatlittlepig is in favor of repeal of 2nd amend. Time for country to modernize.
                              Click to expand…


                              Was hoping to keep politics out of the discussion.  Maybe this should have been about a collection of POGS instead of guns.
                              Click to expand…


                              Saying “who needs 100 guns” is inherently political.

                              I imagine WCI forum will be a pretty civil discussion though.
                              Click to expand…


                              “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

                              Yep sounds like something which applies to 2018. LOL.

                              this stuff was written when our country was young and vulnerable. Without a large military we needed a method to mobilize people with arms. strange to see physicians who are trained to protect sanctity of life not “get it”. gun violence is out of control.

                               
                              Click to expand…


                              Keep poking and someone may bite.
                              Click to expand…


                              I’m close to biting, but I know he’s just a troll looking for a fight, so I’ll resist
                              Click to expand…


                              nah not looking for a fight, just expressing a correct opinion.
                              Click to expand...


                              Comment


                              • #45







                                Knowing that something is worth something can be the hardest part. After going through my late father’s belongings, I discovered a well worn, discontinued, non-working handgun, a Charter Arms Bulldog. I presumed it was valueless but I listed it on a gun auction website anyway. I was shocked to see the price skyrocket. I inquired with the winning bidder about the appeal of this gun. It was a hot commodity because the Bulldog’s frame was the base of the Blade Runner’s gun. Had it not been for the movie, this hunk of metal would have been just that.

                                Charter Arms reintroduced the Bulldog model several years later, so the high commodity price I received, was a fortuitous moment in time. Today someone can purchase a new Bulldog for less than the winning bidder paid for my father’s broken gun.

                                Timing is everything.
                                Click to expand…


                                Yes, that’s the thing about collectibles, too. Ideally, you should sell them before you die. Your heirs are far less likely to see top dollar, and in many cases will get taken to the cleaners.
                                Click to expand...


                                Whenever we get a succession with any sort of big collection, dealing with the collection (coins, guns, stamps, baseball cards, you name it) is a time-consuming expense.  Just figuring out a ballpark value is a headache.  Best case the executor finds a dealer/wholesaler who buys the whole lot, typically for cents on the dollar, or the whole collection is left to a single legatee who then inherits the problem.

                                Comment

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