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Cuomo proposal would raise top tax rate for New York City

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  • #31
    it's amazing to me how fixated people are on these large cities where they do not live.

    there's also this zombie idea that these cities are all collapsing b/c of their tax structures. they aren't. there is a normal influx of people in and out of large cities. some people leave citing taxes/crime, others move in for culture/diversity. last i checked basically every major city in america was growing.

    you can cherry pick one side of that normal influx/eflux and create a narrative that clearly makes you feel more on top of things i guess?

    no one lives in NY, SF, etc for the tax structure. there are all kinds of other benefits to living in a city. if your goal in life is to pay as little in taxes as you possibly can then NYC is not for you. but keep in mind that some of these geographic arbitrage centers of excellence might not even be places where some of our brothers and sisters can even walk down the street. being able to make decisions about where to live based on things like metro tax rates is a pretty lucky position to be in, a position that really wasn't available to, say, a openly gay man in the 80s or 90s. so as always, different strokes.

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    • #32
      If you can’t balance a budget, you can’t balance a budget. People who earn 50k are confused by those who make 100k and are in debt. People who make 100k are confused by those who make 1M and are in debt. At some point, you can’t out-earn a spending problem.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by MPMD View Post
        it's amazing to me how fixated people are on these large cities where they do not live.
        I don't think anybody is necessarily fixated on any particular city. Part of a financial forum involves discussion of various fiscal policies. Lots of cities are in bad shape financially, red, blue, and purple. I'd be more than happy to talk about any of them.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Random1 View Post
          The government has no intention of paying down debt, they just go along as it is and then devalue the dollar.
          States cant print money. They can only issue more bonds. If they can't meet the obligations, the credit rating sinks and eventually no one will buy the bonds and they will default. Big difference between Fed and State. Unless of course, the Fed bails the states out, which may happen.

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          • #35
            The influx of now former downstate NY residents has pretty much supercharged our real estate market here. A lot of businesses are permanently relocating also. Manhattan looks shockingly desolate these days. It might be a one-sided look at things, but it certainly doesn’t look great right now for the near future of NYS/NYC. The city looks empty from the outside.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ENT Doc View Post

              Who do you think is next?
              $400k seems to be the popular number.
              What will be interesting to see is when working from home with what used to be long commutes and high taxes working in the city start pressing employers for zero commute and zero NYC tax. Office space savings too.
              It will take awhile.

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              • #37
                Aren’t most of the Wall Street rich folks paid in such a way that they are taxed at the capital gains level, and not income tax? Pay themselves $200k and the rest of their pay is a distribution? I’d have to look it up but thought I’d read that previously, and it would explain why you never hear much complaining from the Wall Street folks about increased income tax rates in NY.

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                • #38
                  No worries for the big blue cities. Pelosi and the gang are going to give them bail out money put up by the rest of us. That's why it matters to the rest of us what goes on in these liberal monetary sinkholes. The rest of the country is going to be propping them up so they can continue their profligate ways and bloating the pensions of their supporters.

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                  • #39
                    I haven’t done the math, but I assume these tax cuts will go hand in hand with salt deduction. So increase state tax 2% and salt deduction gives folks a 3% tax break. New York wins, federal government prints more money. All seems like it will work out until re-election in 2 years.

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                    • #40
                      I schooled in New York City. And before they I already didn't want to ever live there. I'll only go if someone else is footing the bill & giving me a generous bribe to live there.

                      I care about what goes on there because it will eventually affect me. Not caring would be nice, but then...

                      ​​​​Why do people care about migrants welfare, asylum seekers, illegal immigration? I'm not at the border & I was born down the street.

                      Who do people care about the uninsured? I have insurance.

                      Why do people care about others dying from covid? I survived.

                      Why do I care about drug prices? My meds are cheap generic.

                      Why is this country giving money to other countries? We aren't there.

                      Raising taxes to cover spending is upping insulin because you just need to eat chocolate cake more & more. Yeah you can for a short while. But that's not addressing the problem.
                      "Oh look another bajillion point declin-Ooooh!!! A coupon for pizza!!!!" <--- This is what everyone's IPS should be. ✓✓✓

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by dennis View Post
                        No worries for the big blue cities. Pelosi and the gang are going to give them bail out money put up by the rest of us. That's why it matters to the rest of us what goes on in these liberal monetary sinkholes. The rest of the country is going to be propping them up so they can continue their profligate ways and bloating the pensions of their supporters.
                        you should spend some time researching where tax dollars actually are spent.

                        see what i mean though? that absolute hatred of -- and obsession with -- cities, it's a sickness.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Eye3md View Post
                          Aren’t most of the Wall Street rich folks paid in such a way that they are taxed at the capital gains level, and not income tax? Pay themselves $200k and the rest of their pay is a distribution? I’d have to look it up but thought I’d read that previously, and it would explain why you never hear much complaining from the Wall Street folks about increased income tax rates in NY.
                          This is a very important point.
                          • Social Security and Medicare are taxed on income.
                          • Federal Income Taxes are taxed on income.
                          • States can tax on income.
                          Tax policy is used for incentivizing behavior .

                          The definition of income and the definition of deductions are not consistent at the federal, state and local levels. Special interests want to avoid and delay taxes. All income is not even reportable. The devil is in the details, everyone’s their exclusions and deductions and to pay the least tax as required.
                          Start messing with the definition of any tax and you start a political war. Make a law!



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                          • #43
                            Is there any evidence that decreasing taxes actually decreases govt spending ?— this may be true on a personal level but it is not true for the govt. I can find very few examples of politicians who have actually decreased the debt — the nearest I can find to someone who managed to minimize debt seems to be Bill Clinton. It seems like tax cuts only increase debt — so why are we favoring politicians who cut our taxes but put us further in debt? That does not sound like a good long term strategy for our country.

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                            • #44
                              revenue + loan proceeds - investments - loan payoffs + payoffs of past investments = spending
                              You are looking at two components , net change in debt.
                              Decreases in taxes are intended to increase private sector activity and future tax revenues). Different analysis.
                              Government spending reduction is very hard to achieve. Budget cuts are about the only way , life style inflation is a disease in government and private sectors.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Dusn View Post
                                It seems like tax cuts only increase debt — so why are we favoring politicians who cut our taxes but put us further in debt? That does not sound like a good long term strategy for our country.
                                The problem is that increasing taxes does not decrease debt either. All it does is increase more wasteful spending that increases debt. More pork pensions. Higher and higher salaries with early retirement and higher income from pension than while working. More healthcare and schooling for illegal ... opps ... undocumented people. So if the debt is going to increase anyway, cut the taxes so that it saves us. And let us all please stop with this blather about saddling our grandchildren with debt. Neither side cares.


                                I am OK if we passes a law that any amount collected by increase in taxes will go only to decreasing debt, and nothing else, with strict monitoring.. Bet Cuomo would not be in favor of that. I agree, Bill Clinton was the last best financially savvy president. Strictly from a financial viewpoint, if he had a chance to stand last year for POTUS ( I know law does not allow it) I would have voted for him with no second thought.

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