Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

tax deduction for CME's

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • tax deduction for CME's

    I was considering taking a vacation with the family while attending a conference in Hawaii.  I know I can write off much of the vacation if I went to the conference (air fare, hotels, cost of the conference, meals) which is very nice.  However, I would like to take a vacation somewhere else.  I found this website http://www.travelmedicalseminars.com/  .  If I did this, would I be able to write off the trip somewhere else?   If not, any other suggestions?

     

  • #2
    I've used American Seminar Institute many times.  That said: it is sketchy.  (You listen to audiotape lectures, presumably at the conference.)  However, you get a certificate, with endorsed CME, saying something like "Left Earlobe Review Course Sep 19-22, 2016, at Expensive Resort Hotel."  FWIW, my accountant is ok with it, and he is pretty conservative.  Hawaii or US Territories would probably bring less scrutiny in an audit...unlike backcountry lodge skiing in Canada. 

    Comment


    • #3
      If this is all audio-taped, the IRS could reasonably challenge the deduction based upon the need to travel to somewhere exotic to listen to audio tapes. Of course, that is in the unlikely event you actually are audited.
      Working to protect good doctors from bad advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay folks, need some advice on this one. One of these companies is looking to advertise on the site. I've reviewed their site (and that of their competitors.) None of them say anything about tax deductibility or the ethics of using your CME funds from your institution to pay for travel to a site where you listen to these tapes. But we all know how people use this product and there is definitely an argument that this is at least a gray zone.

        Would an association with one of these companies be a black mark on WCI? It's always nice to get new advertisers, but reputation/trust is my most valuable commodity and not one I'm willing to spend on something as silly as a display ad.

         
        Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

        Comment


        • #5
          Travel to listen to a tape or podcast?  Highly questionable.

          Travel to Maui, Orlando, or Park City for high quality, live CME?  Totally legit and an excellent idea!

          Comment


          • #6




            Okay folks, need some advice on this one. One of these companies is looking to advertise on the site. I’ve reviewed their site (and that of their competitors.) None of them say anything about tax deductibility or the ethics of using your CME funds from your institution to pay for travel to a site where you listen to these tapes. But we all know how people use this product and there is definitely an argument that this is at least a gray zone.

            Would an association with one of these companies be a black mark on WCI? It’s always nice to get new advertisers, but reputation/trust is my most valuable commodity and not one I’m willing to spend on something as silly as a display ad.

             
            Click to expand...


            I would say don't do it.  This is not a legitimate use of CME funds for travel.  Your reputation is worth way more than that extra bit of ad revenue.

            Comment


            • #7
              Seems shady, I'd avoid it. I agree, your reputation is worth more than what they'd pay you.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd say it depends on the quality of CME offered. If they offer good courses, I do not see an issue.

                Comment


                • #9




                  If this is all audio-taped, the IRS could reasonably challenge the deduction based upon the need to travel to somewhere exotic to listen to audio tapes. Of course, that is in the unlikely event you actually are audited.
                  Click to expand...


                  If you have no other way to access the material (i.e. you have to arrive in Hawaii to access the content) I doubt that would be a difficult defense.  You need CME this year, and if the company won't make their content available for download at home, how else would you access it?
                  I sometimes have trouble reading private messages on the forum. I can also be contacted at [email protected]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I viewed the website linked in the OP. Nowhere does it say or imply that the CME content can or should be used to take a vacation in Paris or the Alps, to view the content while your spouse is getting ready for dinner, and then claim the $10,000 vacation as a CME course. I have purchased CME content on DVDs in the past, and, perhaps I am not creative or sketchy enough, but I never considered not watching it at home (let alone making a boondoggle out of it). Heck, why ruin a good vacation with that CME nonsense.

                    That said, I am concerned that the product is not a core or even peripheral focus of the WCI mission..."providing financial education to physicians and other other high income professionals blah, blah, blah..." (or something like that). This CME product is not a financial services product nor is it related to the business or financial aspects of practice or the financial well being of physicians. Would you have a stethoscope manufacturer ad on your site? How about a scrub vendor? Omaha steaks (docs gotta eat, right)? Etc.

                    So my reason for rejecting it would be more along the lines of it not fitting the mission of WCI (and then we can conveniently avoid the ethical quandary of scamming the system for CME funds).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is something I was thinking about asking my accountant about but never got around to it. I figured the small tax saving wasn't worth the hassle of having tax audit issues :

                      If you had a holiday with 4 or so other physicians, could you claim it as a conference/educational tax deduction ? If you did indeed organize some sort of educational "lecture" and conference type activities ? I mean there are organizations that organize medical conferences with surfing and so on. But can you just cut out the middle man and organize your own holiday conference. What constitutes a conference, who can organize it, what are the minimum numbers ?

                      The problem with the holiday conferences or even real conferences is that they actually have significant cost and that seems to negate any tax saving.

                      Comment


                      • #12




                        This is something I was thinking about asking my accountant about but never got around to it. I figured the small tax saving wasn’t worth the hassle of having tax audit issues :

                        If you had a holiday with 4 or so other physicians, could you claim it as a conference/educational tax deduction ? If you did indeed organize some sort of educational “lecture” and conference type activities ? I mean there are organizations that organize medical conferences with surfing and so on. But can you just cut out the middle man and organize your own holiday conference. What constitutes a conference, who can organize it, what are the minimum numbers ?

                        The problem with the holiday conferences or even real conferences is that they actually have significant cost and that seems to negate any tax saving.
                        Click to expand...


                        Having actually organized a conference, it isn't about the numbers but about the content qualifying for CME. The hoops you jump through are a big deal. It's not a matter of four buddies having an educational lecture.
                        Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

                        Comment


                        • #13







                          This is something I was thinking about asking my accountant about but never got around to it. I figured the small tax saving wasn’t worth the hassle of having tax audit issues :

                          If you had a holiday with 4 or so other physicians, could you claim it as a conference/educational tax deduction ? If you did indeed organize some sort of educational “lecture” and conference type activities ? I mean there are organizations that organize medical conferences with surfing and so on. But can you just cut out the middle man and organize your own holiday conference. What constitutes a conference, who can organize it, what are the minimum numbers ?

                          The problem with the holiday conferences or even real conferences is that they actually have significant cost and that seems to negate any tax saving.
                          Click to expand…


                          Having actually organized a conference, it isn’t about the numbers but about the content qualifying for CME. The hoops you jump through are a big deal. It’s not a matter of four buddies having an educational lecture.
                          Click to expand...


                          Does it have to qualify for CME though to be able to be claimed as a tax deduction on your personal income ?

                          Comment


                          • #14


                            That said, I am concerned that the product is not a core or even peripheral focus of the WCI mission…”providing financial education to physicians and other other high income professionals blah, blah, blah…” (or something like that). This CME product is not a financial services product nor is it related to the business or financial aspects of practice or the financial well being of physicians. Would you have a stethoscope manufacturer ad on your site? How about a scrub vendor? Omaha steaks (docs gotta eat, right)? Etc.
                            Click to expand...


                            Disagree somewhat.  I would allow the ads unless you felt the conferences were scamming your audience somehow.  Obviously this "product" could be a little shady but I don't see it as exploitative to audience.  I see nothing wrong with Littmann advertisements either for that matter.  I have never been to one of these "conferences" but would not out of hand dismiss the CME value necessarily.  However audio digest will not stop spamming my USPS mailbox which is not a good sign and apparently associated with the OP link above.  Also clearly their "free ipad" or giftcard promotions are designed for employed physicians to bilk their hospitals, or perhaps the IRS..

                            Comment


                            • #15










                              This is something I was thinking about asking my accountant about but never got around to it. I figured the small tax saving wasn’t worth the hassle of having tax audit issues :

                              If you had a holiday with 4 or so other physicians, could you claim it as a conference/educational tax deduction ? If you did indeed organize some sort of educational “lecture” and conference type activities ? I mean there are organizations that organize medical conferences with surfing and so on. But can you just cut out the middle man and organize your own holiday conference. What constitutes a conference, who can organize it, what are the minimum numbers ?

                              The problem with the holiday conferences or even real conferences is that they actually have significant cost and that seems to negate any tax saving.
                              Click to expand…


                              Having actually organized a conference, it isn’t about the numbers but about the content qualifying for CME. The hoops you jump through are a big deal. It’s not a matter of four buddies having an educational lecture.
                              Click to expand…


                              Does it have to qualify for CME though to be able to be claimed as a tax deduction on your personal income ?
                              Click to expand...


                              For you to use your CME fund from your employer or deduct it as a business expense if you're self-employed, yes.
                              Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X