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Use of retirement accounts in non-traditional retirement

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  • Use of retirement accounts in non-traditional retirement

    I have been a long time reader of this website and have listened to every one of the podcasts. I have posted a time or two on the forum and value the opinions of those here. I am a 43 year-old married father of two kids aged 12 and 9. I am a surgical subspecialist in the Midwest.

    I started my financial journey when I was a junior in college in 2000 starting my Roth IRA. I was bitten by the stock investing bug in the mania of 1998-1999. My second parent died later in 2000, giving me a life insurance check that I excitedly invested in tech names like Broadcom, JDS Uniphase, and Cisco. You know how that story ends--over the next couple years I lost >80% of that money. I chalk this up to a learning experience that has shaped how I've invested going forward (don't invest in individual stocks) and consider it lucky that I only lost as much as I did, when I did, and have avoided repeating that mistake. I was able to invest consistently in a 403b throughout residency and fellowship and max out my Roth IRA until I was unable to do so and then have utilized the back-door Roth IRA strategy. My wife also works at an affluent school district and has been able to max out her 403b contribution and will stand to get a 6 figure pension when she retires.

    While my career path isn't the one I planned on, (I am still an employee 11 years after starting with the practice), I have for the most part enjoyed my job, felt like I have been fairly compensated, and most importantly, had a good work-life balance. I have posted on the forum about some of my difficulties and have appreciated the feedback from the community. I started what I consider to be a side gig in 2016 of reading images remotely and that has expanded into a 6 figure income. I was excited to start a solo401k and have increased that contribution every year as my 1099 income has risen.

    I have recently made an investment into a private real estate fund and consider personal finance a hobby. For the past 22 years I have tried to put away as much money as possible and have been excited about my growing net worth.

    June 22 I was diagnosed with a cancerous brain tumor. I had surgery July 8th and they were able to do a "total" resection. However, with these tumors it's not really "total". I will start radiation soon. It was histologically grade 3 astrocytoma but the tumor markers make the neuro-oncologist feel optimistic that it may behave more like a grade 2. Nonetheless, it sounds like it is going to get me at some point, whether it be 2 years or 20 years.

    My question is this. I have spent the last 22 years of my life figuring out ways to save and put away as much money as I can tax advantaged. Now this. It will be 16 1/2 years before I reach 59 1/2 and can access my IRA funds without penalty. I have read the description of the SEPP rule. My question to the forum is this: should I continue to max out my IRA, 401k, solo401k, 529 plans to pay less tax now in my "peak earnings years" or now that I won't have retirement at a traditional age, should I switch my mindset and stop putting so much money away that I can't access without penalty? I have $3million in term life insurance and our remaining mortgage is ~$250k, so I know my wife and kids will be taken care of. We have estate plan documents already in place. I also have disability insurance but as of now I don't need it.

    There have been articles on the blog about how people draw down their investments in retirement and have gone through the 4% rule, etc. However, my situation is somewhat different from that. I'd like to get the opinion of all of you on how I should approach saving going forward. (Don't say, "what does your written investment plan say?" LOL).

    Thank you

  • #2
    Wow, sorry to hear about your health situation.

    I would personally push pause and perhaps pay a fee only financial advisor (I used Rick Ferri and WCI has some recommended people) to help you optimize a strategy that makes sense going forward.

    You can pay an advisor 1-3k and get a really good evaluation of where you are and where you want to be and you can set up something so that he/she can help your wife if you become disabled or unable to help as much.

    There are a lot of variables and it is difficult for me to give specific advice.

    Questions that might influence my advice on continuing IRA contributions (your question) (sorry If I missed this in your original post):

    1. Expected ability to work? How long? How certain is this? Desire to do this?

    2. How much liquid $ is in taxable? How large is the emergency fund?

    3. Yearly spending?

    4. What do you want? Bucket list would be what I would personally be doing rather than working if I realistically had < 10 years left.

    Again, sorry for your situation and sorry I do not have specific advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Very sorry for your situation. That really stinks. I agree seeing a fee-only advisor would help you plan. I doubt you need to save up as much as you have been saving and you deserve to spend more on things you enjoy. At what age will that life insurance policy lapse? You that alone cover the goals of your family should you pass? If so, make a plan to spend down pre-tax assets and probably do an SEPP. Again, an advisor is helpful in your situation

      Comment


      • #4
        If you have not used your disability insurance and from the context of your question, I assume you are still working. If so, you remain in a high tax bracket and would benefit from deferring taxes. It would help to know how much you have in taxable accounts, your annual expenses and savings. You know you can access your deferred accounts without penalty, you have not indicated a reason to cut back on savings. If you were to cut back on working and see your expenses go up, and your tax deferred savings rate was making it difficult to make ends meet, then there would be a reason to cut back.

        How much time is left on your term insurance? You probably cannot buy more at this point or extend the term, but do you have a convertibility provision? Depending on your income, savings rate and expenses might your family need the insurance past the point at which the term runs out?

        I have not used him, so I do not know this, but I thought that Rick Ferri mainly focussed on investing, rather than the sort of overall financial planning you need. I would have thought of Allan Roth for that.

        You have more uncertainty than most since you do not know what will be the course of your disease. However, the same principles apply. If you can defer taxes until you are in a lower bracket, then you should do so. You might go on disability or retire young. If so, then your tax bracket will be lower and that would be the time to pay the taxes.

        Comment


        • #5
          1. I was cleared to go back to work and went back earlier this week. When initially diagnosed I figured I may not want to work again. However, my wife said, and I tend to agree, that it would be weird for the kids to see me just hanging out around the house all day. Also, I think after being diagnosed that I have a newfound appreciation of the importance of what I do at work. In between when I was diagnosed and when I had surgery I saw patients one day. I had several patients in a row thank me for their good outcomes and I think that helped me mentally deal with my own issue. I don't think anyone knows how long I will be able to work for and I don't think there's much certainty.

          2. We have about $50k in taxable and about $150k in an emergency fund.
          3. We spend about 230k/year on gross income of about $500-700k/year
          4. My bucket list is short and simple. I want to go to the Masters and will probably go next spring. As my scheduled is now, I drop the kids off at school but then don't get home until around 6pm most days. I may push to change my schedule so that I get home closer to when they get home at like 3:30pm. However, I'm not sure they would want me around then!
          5. $1mil in insurance will lapse in 9 years, and $2mil will lapse in 19 years. I laddered term insurance coverage when I started out. I highly doubt I would be able to secure more term insurance at this point!

          Thanks for your input!

          Comment


          • #6
            With that income you should defer taxes to the extent you can.

            You could work throughout a normal length career.
            You may live for decades.
            If your work is meaningful and it would be good for your family to see you doing the usual, no reason to quit. Getting the diagnosis is depressing but if it were me, the last thing I would want to do is give up my career and relationships at work. Certainly not unless I had something else I wanted to do 10 hours a day, 48 weeks a year. How much golf can one watch?

            I assume you are saving into multiple tax favored accounts and that is the reason for such a small amount in taxable, given your income and spending. Keep it up and hope all goes well when you start RMDs at 72.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am sorry that I missed this post earlier and am sorry about your health condition. I have had two close friends from residency/fellowship that died from cancer before the age of 50, and it has shaped how I have viewed work and my career ever since. Based on what you have posted, especially with you continuing to work, your family should never have a money concern so long as they are satisfied with an upper middle class+ lifestyle.

              If you live another 9 years and the first $1M of life insurance coverage lapses, I think your family will be in a much better financial position (as will you ). Same again for the second tranche. I would be operating under the assumption that this will not be the case.

              This might be a situation to hire a financial advisor specifically to make a plan for cash flow and tax optimization for your current circumstances, with the likelihood that you will be on disability at some point and after that an earlier demise. Worse case scenario is that you are cured and outlive the morbid plan, but I am sure that any reasonable financial plan can weather that outcome.

              More importantly, I would work on making meaningful memories with your family while you are feeling well. International vacations, sports, ski trips, national parks, Disney, home projects, golf all together as a family, camping, game nights, movie nights, etc. - whatever it is that everyone will enjoy together and remember. That is far, far more important than chiseling a percent here or there from the tax man.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by afan View Post
                With that income you should defer taxes to the extent you can.

                You could work throughout a normal length career.
                You may live for decades.
                If your work is meaningful and it would be good for your family to see you doing the usual, no reason to quit. Getting the diagnosis is depressing but if it were me, the last thing I would want to do is give up my career and relationships at work. Certainly not unless I had something else I wanted to do 10 hours a day, 48 weeks a year. How much golf can one watch?

                I assume you are saving into multiple tax favored accounts and that is the reason for such a small amount in taxable, given your income and spending. Keep it up and hope all goes well when you start RMDs at 72.
                Well, I can't watch 10 hours of golf a day, but playing golf takes a solid 4 hours.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Senator View Post

                  Well, I can't watch 10 hours of golf a day, but playing golf takes a solid 4 hours.
                  Or 8, if you're looking to fill your morning and afternoon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I hope you wind up on the 20-year end of the spectrum. If you were off work for ~6 weeks getting surgery and recovering, did or will your monthly income decline (even temporarily)? If so, please check your DI policy's definitions for partial disability and/or return to work benefits. Many of those riders allow for some payment if you have something like a 20% drop in income. The agents and attorneys on the insurance forum could give you details, but my feeling is that you have been paying those DI premiums and should go after every nickel that your contract allows.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I hope your tumor has the better prognostic indicators. Having cancer is scary, and can occupy your mind every moment of the day. As a surgeon, that’s not good considering the high stakes involved. If there was any way for you to be able to use DI, as you go through treatments, or for mental anguish, I would encourage you to seek that route. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope you enjoy a long life ahead of you!

                      Comment

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