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  • Multiple 401(k) question

    Great news for me!!!

    I'm currently working as an employed ED doc.  I've been working on starting some Sports Medicine on the side and have 2 more side jobs lined up for this fall.  Both of them will be employed (W-2) positions.  Also, starting in July 2018, I will become a partner in my ED job.

    I was reviewing the Multiple 401K Rules Post and need some help figuring out how I can maximize my contributions in 2018. I might not be able to completely maximize all accounts, but if I could, where should the money go? Yes, I know it's early, but I just got the news some I'm thinking about it.

    All 3 jobs are completely unrelated employers (different health systems).  Here are the accounts I have available to me in 2018:

    ED Job ~300K in 2018

    W-2 for 6 months, then I become partner & self-employed for 6 months

    401(k) with opportunity to "self-match" as I become partner half way through 2018.

    Roth 401(k) also available.

    Defined Benefit Plan - max $30K per year.

     

    Sports Job 1 ~31K in 2018

    W-2 Employed position (seasonal)

    401(k) with employer match (after 1 year) starts at 3% and increases 1% with each year of service.

    403(b) plan without any match.

     

    Sports Job 2 ~19K in 2018

    W-2 Employed position (year round)

    401(k) with no match

    May also have 403(b) with no match

     

    NOTE: All 3 jobs are completely unrelated employers.

     

    This is what I'm thinking, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

    EM 401k: $54K employer contribution (but does this have to only be contributed after I become partner?)

    EM Roth 401k: $0

    EM DRB: $30K

    SM-1 401k: $18K employee contribution + whatever match I get

    SM-1 403b: The rest of that salary up to maximum of $18K (Or is this limited by the SM-1 401k contribution?)

    SM-2 401k: $0

    SM-2 403b: $0

     

    HSA: $6750

    Roth IRA: $5500

    Spouse Roth IRA: $5500

     

    Total Possible: $137,750

    Is that right?  Thanks in advance!

     

     

  • #2
    You can't make employer contributions if you are an employee (EM job).

    You could make employer contributions if you were independent contractor getting 1099 income. But even then it's basically up to 20% of your earned income so you would need to make $250k-ish to get there. Think about it, if this weren't true you could get a moonlighting gig and put every dollar up to $52k into a tax protected account. The trick is that when you're an independent contractor your are both the employer and the employee. The hospital is hiring you as an independent entity and you are paying yourself. It's like being a company with 1 employee (you).

    What sort of job is offering you both a 401k and a 403b? That sounds odd.

    Comment


    • #3
      There is one employee deferral limit (2017 = $18K) per person across all qualified plans including 401k and 403b plans.

      There is one annual addition limit (2017 = $54K), which includes all employee + employer contributions, per unrelated employer. Note: A 403b is considered controlled by the participant and must be aggregated with plans of employers owned >= 80% by the participant. For example, if you have individual 1099 income, 403b annual additions would have to be aggregated with annual additions to a one participant 401k plan.

      EM 401k employer contributions must be contributed by the partnership based only on partner compensation, must be equitable to all employees and may be limited by the availability of a defined benefit plan. if the DB plan is not subject to the Pension Benifit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) and any employee participates in both plans, then there could be limits to the EM 401k employer contributions. Employee deferrals are not subject to limitation by the DB contribution.

      If more than one employer offers 401k employer matching it may make sense to split the employee deferral across more than one employer to receive the maximum employer match possible.

      Comment


      • #4
        You probably don't have a 401(k) and a 403(b). Maybe a 401(a) and a 403(b). Or a 403(b) and a 457. But not 401(k) and 403(b). So look into that and see waht you have.

         

        I think you're doing this right as long as the EM 401(k) allows you to "self-match" for the employer contributions. Be aware they'll assume $18K is an employee contribution so make sure you have enough income to justify yourself in an audit to be able to contribute that much as an employer contribution. Get your match in your other 401(k).
        Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

        Comment


        • #5




          You probably don’t have a 401(k) and a 403(b). Maybe a 401(a) and a 403(b). Or a 403(b) and a 457. But not 401(k) and 403(b). So look into that and see waht you have.

          I think you’re doing this right as long as the EM 401(k) allows you to “self-match” for the employer contributions. Be aware they’ll assume $18K is an employee contribution so make sure you have enough income to justify yourself in an audit to be able to contribute that much as an employer contribution. Get your match in your other 401(k).
          Click to expand...


          Straight from their website it looks like they have both 401k & 403b.  Or am I misunderstanding the rules?

           

          Savings Plus 401(k) Plan


          Our 401(k) savings plan provides generous matching contributions from Intermountain, along with a range of investment options. Eligible employees can save a percentage of their pre-tax earnings toward retirement on their first day of employment. Then, beginning on the January 1 or July 1 after one year of employment, Intermountain will match up to 3%, 4% or more of employee contributions. Savings Plus features a variety of investment choices, including a full range of mutual funds and a self-directed option. Loans from your account are also available.

          Tax Deferred Savings 403(b) Plan


          The 403(b) plan is an additional savings program that features a variety of investment choices. All employees can save a percentage of earnings on a pre-tax basis starting on their first day of employment. There are no matching contributions from Intermountain Healthcare. Loans are available.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well that's interesting. I can honestly say that is the first time I have ever seen a job offer both a 401(k) and a 403(b). Typically, these two plans share the same $18K employee contribution limit.

            How much will IHC let you put into them total as an employee contribution? $18K or $36K?
            Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

            Comment


            • #7
              Wait a minute...you're an employed emergency doc at IHC? I'm really curious what facility you're working at.
              Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

              Comment


              • #8
                No. One of my Sports Med gigs will be through IHC though. I'm with EPIC for EM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi please help me clarify and i am new to this

                  1. I have two 403B ( fellowship + moonlighting gig).Fellowship will end in june 2018

                  2. i plan to set up a solo 401K for my W2 employed position ( july 2018) without retirement because i  am on for a year, and another 1099 for moonlighting job  that will be held concurrently ?

                  Questions

                  1. what retirement vehicle /strategy  can i use to maximum my retirement accounts across

                  2. is it true based on my  understanding of IRS rules that 54K contribution limit  rules is different for 403B ( if i save 18.5K from 403B, that is subtracted from 54K limit  and what is left is the maximum i can contribute to my solo 401K. which is different if i have 2 401K

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