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  • #16


    When I was in Aspen (presumably with a family who didn’t need the money that desperately) I was in a basement with two girls under 10. That’s just insane.
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    I completely agree. That's asking for trouble. Not with you specifically, but boarders down the hall from your sons or daughters? The risks far outweigh the small financial benefit in a setup like that.

    Comment


    • #17
      Ive never understood hosting what is in reality, random strangers into your own home while you are there, unless its totally partitioned etc...as some have these set ups.

      The money is okay, but I view that loss of "potential income" as insurance. No thanks. Now a duplex or vacation home, sure, makes great sense. But strangers are not going to be sleeping in the same house with me, I dont care how verified they are.

      Comment


      • #18
        Just to offer a different perspective...

        I would have honestly said exactly the same thing as Zaphod prior to my wife starting our airbnb.  In fact, it was really quite a leap of faith for me to even agree to it, but, after having it up and running for nearly a year now, it's really a non-issue.  It's no different then living in an apartment building in terms of "risks" to your personal safety.  Our house is large enough that we never hear or see the guests and they have zero access to our side of the building unless they were to try to break down the doors.  If that were to happen it would be no different then someone trying to break in our front door or windows.  I sleep with a loaded gun in our bedroom so we'd be fine.  Plus we have a pitbull that sleeps next to our bed to alert us to any funny business like someone trying to break in.

        To each his/her own, but the fear of bad things happening just because there are strangers in your home is really unwarranted in my opinion.  I agree that I wouldn't want to share my side of the building with strangers, but that's because I'm an introvert and need my personal space.  But, keep in mind that true "Bed and Breakfast" establishments have existed for hundreds of years and usually operate in such a manner where the owners sleep in the same house with strangers every night (often times just down the hall, but usually with individual locks on the doors).  In fact, most older homes would have had locks on each door that could only be opened with keys for the purpose of sharing your home with travelers.  When we traveled through Europe we stayed at many B&B's like that.  The owners would also get up in the morning and make us breakfast and chat with us a little.  It was nice and really made for a memorable experience.  We got so much more out of that kind of genuine interaction than we did on the nights we stayed in a big hotel.  It's kind of unfortunate that our society is so fear driven these days, especially in this country.  It's not like that everywhere else in the world.  I understand that it's not for everyone, but it's not a "dangerous" situation as people here have suggested.

        Comment


        • #19




          Just to offer a different perspective…

          I would have honestly said exactly the same thing as Zaphod prior to my wife starting our airbnb.  In fact, it was really quite a leap of faith for me to even agree to it, but, after having it up and running for nearly a year now, it’s really a non-issue.  It’s no different then living in an apartment building in terms of “risks” to your personal safety.  Our house is large enough that we never hear or see the guests and they have zero access to our side of the building unless they were to try to break down the doors.  If that were to happen it would be no different then someone trying to break in our front door or windows.  I sleep with a loaded gun in our bedroom so we’d be fine.  Plus we have a pitbull that sleeps next to our bed to alert us to any funny business like someone trying to break in.

          To each his/her own, but the fear of bad things happening just because there are strangers in your home is really unwarranted in my opinion.  I agree that I wouldn’t want to share my side of the building with strangers, but that’s because I’m an introvert and need my personal space.  But, keep in mind that true “Bed and Breakfast” establishments have existed for hundreds of years and usually operate in such a manner where the owners sleep in the same house with strangers every night (often times just down the hall, but usually with individual locks on the doors).  In fact, most older homes would have had locks on each door that could only be opened with keys for the purpose of sharing your home with travelers.  When we traveled through Europe we stayed at many B&B’s like that.  The owners would also get up in the morning and make us breakfast and chat with us a little.  It was nice and really made for a memorable experience.  We got so much more out of that kind of genuine interaction than we did on the nights we stayed in a big hotel.  It’s kind of unfortunate that our society is so fear driven these days, especially in this country.  It’s not like that everywhere else in the world.  I understand that it’s not for everyone, but it’s not a “dangerous” situation as people here have suggested.
          Click to expand...


          I dont think there is anything wrong with your situation and is kinda perfect. I mean literally a single enclosed space and someone is just in the room/down the hall.

          A BnB is entirely different than the kind of riff raff you may get off of what is some online venture, and as you said are set up for such with provisions. Thats a true business and people come there for a purpose, lots of Air bnb room sharing is done for economics alone, different clientele.

          I've stayed in Airbnb/Vrbo so not against it, and also thought about doing a vacation area primarily this way. Still wouldnt let someone stay in my house with all access, even if the risk is low, I dont need it.

          Comment


          • #20
            I'd personally be a little cautious in buying a property with the sole purpose of renting it out via Airbnb, though I know that's not exactly what you're planning.  It seems the Airbnb market isn't the most stable in regards to rules and regulations as it seems a lot of neighborhoods and cities are trying to figure just what to do with them.  I'd imagine that particular area you're looking at may not be as risky, but I think there are certainly some parts of the country with greater pushback against Airbnb, not just from competing businesses, but local residents and the community for reasons that I think are understandable.

            Comment


            • #21


              You actually see kids getting hurt by strangers sleeping down the hall on a weekly basis? Remind me not to take my family to wherever you live!
              Click to expand...


              I've taken care of plenty of kids hurt by "strangers" as well as family and friends who are in their home... that's life working in the city I suppose.
              An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
              www.RogueDadMD.com

              Comment


              • #22




                Just to offer a different perspective…

                I would have honestly said exactly the same thing as Zaphod prior to my wife starting our airbnb.  In fact, it was really quite a leap of faith for me to even agree to it, but, after having it up and running for nearly a year now, it’s really a non-issue.  It’s no different then living in an apartment building in terms of “risks” to your personal safety.  Our house is large enough that we never hear or see the guests and they have zero access to our side of the building unless they were to try to break down the doors.  If that were to happen it would be no different then someone trying to break in our front door or windows.  I sleep with a loaded gun in our bedroom so we’d be fine.  Plus we have a pitbull that sleeps next to our bed to alert us to any funny business like someone trying to break in.

                To each his/her own, but the fear of bad things happening just because there are strangers in your home is really unwarranted in my opinion.  I agree that I wouldn’t want to share my side of the building with strangers, but that’s because I’m an introvert and need my personal space.  But, keep in mind that true “Bed and Breakfast” establishments have existed for hundreds of years and usually operate in such a manner where the owners sleep in the same house with strangers every night (often times just down the hall, but usually with individual locks on the doors).  In fact, most older homes would have had locks on each door that could only be opened with keys for the purpose of sharing your home with travelers.  When we traveled through Europe we stayed at many B&B’s like that.  The owners would also get up in the morning and make us breakfast and chat with us a little.  It was nice and really made for a memorable experience.  We got so much more out of that kind of genuine interaction than we did on the nights we stayed in a big hotel.  It’s kind of unfortunate that our society is so fear driven these days, especially in this country.  It’s not like that everywhere else in the world.  I understand that it’s not for everyone, but it’s not a “dangerous” situation as people here have suggested.
                Click to expand...


                We stayed in a BnB in Scotland last month -- wonderful experience.  Hosts slept in a room directly adjacent to ours.  It felt a little odd and we had less privacy than we'd have had in a hotel, but it was a much better experience than the Hilton we'd been in a few days earlier.
                An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
                www.RogueDadMD.com

                Comment


                • #23







                  You actually see kids getting hurt by strangers sleeping down the hall on a weekly basis? Remind me not to take my family to wherever you live!
                  Click to expand…


                  I’ve taken care of plenty of kids hurt by “strangers” as well as family and friends who are in their home… that’s life working in the city I suppose.
                  Click to expand...


                  I kind of had the same reaction as PhysicianOnFIRE.  Forget friends and family; that makes sense (sadly).  But you're seeing "plenty" of kids being hurt by strangers in their home.  How many times a month is plenty?  Also, can you share some details.  Are the strangers intruders? AirBNB renters? Something else?

                  Comment


                  • #24


                    But you’re seeing “plenty” of kids being hurt by strangers in their home.  How many times a month is plenty?  Also, can you share some details.  Are the strangers intruders? AirBNB renters? Something else?
                    Click to expand...


                    I'm not trying to cast aspersions on AirBNB -- I was making general commentary on the fact that kids are in fact hurt injured by strangers as well as friends and family.  I don't want to derail the conversation too much, but I'll try to give an answer to the question.

                    I work in a pediatric emergency department in a children's hospital in an urban environment, and victims of violence of varying types are something that comes through our door semi-regularly -- sometimes we (or someone else) figure it out, and sometimes the child is old enough to tell us.

                    Most doctors, even most pediatricians, don't routinely see patients who were abused or assaulted, but because of where I work and the type of work I do, I see an abnormal concentration of them.

                    Children are far more likely to be abused by someone known to the family than a complete stranger, however that's also presupposing the more common exposures, which is "known" entities, such as family members, parents significant others, etc.

                    I also see children and teenagers who are assaulted without clear provocation on a semi-regular basis (sometimes with provocation too I'm sure).

                    I can't say I've ever come cared for a child who was assaulted by an AirBNB renter.  I've seen plenty who were assaulted by known entities who were allowed to be in the home as well as strangers who came to a house during a party or other gathering.

                    It's hard for me to give a # because I don't keep track, and I don't work every shift in our own ER.  I'll tell you that there's enough of it happening that just about every medium or large children's hospital in the country has pediatric specialists dedicated to evaluating and treating children who are victims of abuse.  There is an accredited 3-year fellowship for it with its own board exam.

                    We have two pediatricians who are a subgroup of my division who sub specialize in it.  One of them actually gave us a CME talk today.  And there aren't enough of these specialists to go around -- not many are in training at any given time.

                    Our house isn't set up well for an AirBNB -- no separate entrance to the basement that has the extra bed/bathroom and no way to separate it from the rest of the house.  No way I would let random people over the internet book a chance to stay in our house with our 3 young children.
                    An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
                    www.RogueDadMD.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I ran an airbnb for a year with my roommate during our last year of our medicine residency. I did it mainly since I was staying at my girlfriends so we figured my room could make some extra money. Needless to say, as a resident, it was a pain having to deal with hosts when I was working so hard during the day. Money was pretty good though. 90% of the guests were quite pleasant. A few hit or miss guests every now and then. We hosted a couple from Paris expecting our apartment to be a Ritz Carlton... needless to say they were pissed, but thats airbnb for yeah.

                      I respectfully disagree with Hightower. If an Airbnb guest is drunk and causes damage that is far more likely to happen than a random person breaking into your apartment.

                       

                      Comment


                      • #26







                        But you’re seeing “plenty” of kids being hurt by strangers in their home.  How many times a month is plenty?  Also, can you share some details.  Are the strangers intruders? AirBNB renters? Something else?
                        Click to expand…


                        I’m not trying to cast aspersions on AirBNB — I was making general commentary on the fact that kids are in fact hurt injured by strangers as well as friends and family.  I don’t want to derail the conversation too much, but I’ll try to give an answer to the question.

                        I work in a pediatric emergency department in a children’s hospital in an urban environment, and victims of violence of varying types are something that comes through our door semi-regularly — sometimes we (or someone else) figure it out, and sometimes the child is old enough to tell us.

                        Most doctors, even most pediatricians, don’t routinely see patients who were abused or assaulted, but because of where I work and the type of work I do, I see an abnormal concentration of them.

                        Children are far more likely to be abused by someone known to the family than a complete stranger, however that’s also presupposing the more common exposures, which is “known” entities, such as family members, parents significant others, etc.

                        I also see children and teenagers who are assaulted without clear provocation on a semi-regular basis (sometimes with provocation too I’m sure).

                        I can’t say I’ve ever come cared for a child who was assaulted by an AirBNB renter.  I’ve seen plenty who were assaulted by known entities who were allowed to be in the home as well as strangers who came to a house during a party or other gathering.

                        It’s hard for me to give a # because I don’t keep track, and I don’t work every shift in our own ER.  I’ll tell you that there’s enough of it happening that just about every medium or large children’s hospital in the country has pediatric specialists dedicated to evaluating and treating children who are victims of abuse.  There is an accredited 3-year fellowship for it with its own board exam.

                        We have two pediatricians who are a subgroup of my division who sub specialize in it.  One of them actually gave us a CME talk today.  And there aren’t enough of these specialists to go around — not many are in training at any given time.

                        Our house isn’t set up well for an AirBNB — no separate entrance to the basement that has the extra bed/bathroom and no way to separate it from the rest of the house.  No way I would let random people over the internet book a chance to stay in our house with our 3 young children.
                        Click to expand...


                        Obviously (or perhaps not so obviously) I never doubted that there are a lot of abused kids.  I just thought that seeing a lot abused by "strangers in the home" was weird, because "strangers in the home" is not a scenario that occurs very often (repairmen, delivery people, AirBNB renters, intruders etc. -- I can't think of a whole lot more because it's just not that common) and when it does normally everyone is alert (which is not the case with friends, family, acquaintances, etc.) and strangers are regarded with suspicion, so the opportunities are likely to be fewer.

                        I'm not sure I'd describe people invited over for a party as strangers.  But I guess it's possible that people have different kinds of parties than I might.  Or maybe if someone crashes the party and then goes on to assault a child, I guess it would count.  If you've seen a lot of those, I'll take your word for it, but it is pretty surprising.

                        Even after all you've typed, I'm still not convinced that kids abused/assaulted by "strangers in the home" is a thing that happens on a frequent basis.  Unless you have a very unorthodox definition of "stranger" and "frequent".

                        I would never rent a room in my house to AirBNB renters unless I was in some dire financial situation, but my reason is far more related to just general discomfort/weirdness of having a stranger around than safety.  But concern for safety is definitely a part of it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          In med school, I rented my parking spot (closer to the hospital than the staff garage).  That seemed pretty safe considering the direction this thread has turned!

                          Comment


                          • #28


                            I’m not sure I’d describe people invited over for a party as strangers.  But I guess it’s possible that people have different kinds of parties than I might.  Or maybe if someone crashes the party and then goes on to assault a child, I guess it would count.  If you’ve seen a lot of those, I’ll take your word for it, but it is pretty surprising. Even after all you’ve typed, I’m still not convinced that kids abused/assaulted by “strangers in the home” is a thing that happens on a frequent basis.  Unless you have a very unorthodox definition of “stranger” and “frequent”.
                            Click to expand...


                            I don't know what YOUR definition is of frequent.  It almost certainly happens every day of the year in this country, and probably many many many times a day in this country.

                            http://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics

                            "Self-report studies show that 20% of adult females and 5-10% of adult males recall a childhood sexual assault or sexual abuse incident;

                            According to a 2003 National Institute of Justice report, 3 out of 4 adolescents who have been sexually assaulted were victimized by someone they knew well (page 5)."

                            That means that 25% were assaulted by someone they did NOT know well.  I would say that most kids proportionally spend more time around people they DO know well then they do NOT know well (my kids spend almost zero time around people they do not know well).

                            As such, that 25% means the strangers are disproportionally represented as the source of attacks.  If they spend 2% of their time around strangers, but strangers represent 25% of sexual assaults, then the strangers are more likely to assault you than a friend (even if the absolute # of assaults is higher from a friend).

                            Ergo, if you start increasing their exposure to strangers, they are more likely to be victimized by one at a higher rate than if you increase their exposure to people they DO know well.  If you increase their stranger exposure from 2% to 15% (by having a rotating case of strangers in the house living with you all the time), their chance of assault by a stranger likely goes up more than 13%.

                             
                            An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
                            www.RogueDadMD.com

                            Comment


                            • #29


                              Ergo, if you start increasing their exposure to strangers, they are more likely to be victimized by one at a higher rate than if you increase their exposure to people they DO know well.  If you increase their stranger exposure from 2% to 15% (by having a rotating case of strangers in the house living with you all the time), their chance of assault by a stranger likely goes up more than 13%.
                              Click to expand...


                              We tell kids "Stranger danger!"  Not "Uncle Jon danger!"

                              If you invite a rotating cast of strangers into your house compared to a rotating case of aunts, uncles, and close friends, I would have to your children are more likely to be harmed by the cast of strangers.

                              I don't an RCT to back this up, but I feel like this is just common sense.

                              And yes, I do see children who are abused or assaulted by people they don't know, sometimes with horrific outcomes.
                              An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
                              www.RogueDadMD.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Back on topic..


                                I have used AirBNB several times over the past few years as a guest and have had a nearly uniformly positive experience (one studio apt had all the furniture removed after the pictures were taken, apparently). However, I am skittish about hosting on AirBNB or similar sites for profit. In addition to the same issues dealt with owning real estate for long term renters, there is a large amount of legal heterogeneity from community to community. My hometown currently outlaws rentals <30 days, with a $1000 fine for violation. The next town over requires a hotel permit and forbids rental unless it's your primary residence. The next town after that requires a bed&breakfast license ($2500/year!!) and lodging taxes remitted but after that anything is fair game. I'm confident things will eventually settle down and there will be a relatively consistent legal framework to operate under, but for now there's a lot of extra risk I don't need.

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