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Any thoughts on the zero to freedom financial course?

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  • terry68b
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    [Comment referring to disputed comment deleted. See above for details. - WCI]
    Last edited by The White Coat Investor; 12-19-2022, 11:42 AM.

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  • CordMcNally
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    [Comment referring to disputed comment deleted. See above for details. - WCI]
    Last edited by The White Coat Investor; 12-19-2022, 11:41 AM.

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  • Lithium
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    [Comment referring to disputed comment deleted, see above.-WCI]
    Last edited by The White Coat Investor; 12-19-2022, 11:40 AM.

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  • terry68b
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    Longtime lurker here. Enrollment is open for Zero to Freedom https://whitecoatinvestor.com/rental 3600 is pretty steep for a course and I have heard mixed reviews. The testimonials are slick. But some say the course itself is pretty shallow and you have to join their facebook group to get any real info. I don't have time to read every Facebook post and comment to actually learn how to do this lol. Has anyone here taken the course? Is there a cheaper alternative that's more comprehensive? Thank you.

    [Edited to swap out link for WCI affiliate link]
    Last edited by The White Coat Investor; 07-24-2022, 09:11 AM.

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  • CincyDoc
    replied
    Buy this book instead:


    Nothing in it you can't find on the internet for free, but its nice to have in one place and walk through everything.

    I have ~180 rental units. There is almost nothing to buy anywhere right now that makes sense if you want passive income. You can make money in single families, duplexes, quads and flips, but that is a job.

    Getting REP status can delay paying taxes, but also can be an invitation for an audit

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  • Tim
    replied
    Originally posted by fatlittlepig View Post
    So the course teaches you how to go from being a doctor to a real estate investor.
    From a spouse of MD now doing something part time.
    "part time at my job so we could try to get REPs". It has been mentioned REP makes a big difference, but not for one that is a doctor, the other.

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  • fatlittlepig
    replied
    So the course teaches you how to go from being a doctor to a real estate investor.

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  • Just a guy
    replied
    Hi all, spouse of an MD here. My wife found Semi Retired and really got into it. I was very skeptical initially, to me they came across a little too happy, a little too eager to spread their incredible insight into becoming real estate moguls. But we did want to get into real estate and had no real knowledge in that area, so we bit the bullet and paid for the course. It turned out to be pretty insightful but what you're really paying for is their CPA/cost seg/realtor/property manager/contractor connections.

    It has been working for us because I was able to go part time at my job so we could try to get REPs. We're in the Southwest and have 2 4plexes and in contract on another in AZ and NM in smaller cities. We missed the boat in Phoenix because the current prices mean no cashflow. We've stuck to their framework and we're on track to BRRR and take advantage of bonus depreciation. I'll come back in a few months with an update.

    For the record I'm still a little creeped out by their style but you know, they've got a product to sell. If it works out in the long run then it will be money well spent. And perhaps if we had real estate knowledge(REPs/taxes/renovations/1031 etc) it wouldn't be worth the money but that wasn't where we were at.

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  • pit.alumni
    replied
    kev777zero Yes it is true RE has been on a tear and in many places it is hard to cash flow. I have no doubt Austin is one of them. But I’d also suspect there are still less sexy parts of the state where cash flow may be possible. RE is a long game and once you buy many of your costs are fixed. Sure taxes can go up but your P&I are fixed. Each year generally your rents increase and your mortgage pay down always increases. You may look at niche markets where there’s always a supply of renters like Universities or Military bases. Near healthcare facilities is another one. Also it is likely hard to find a good deal that is turn key in a market like this. You may need to do major improvements to capture value. It’s a lot more work than buying an Index fund for sure. That doesn’t mean you need to put on a tool belt. As a physician what you bring to the table is Capital and the ability to get good low rate long term finding. There are often young RE investors starting out that have neither but have time and skills to add value. If you are serious about getting into the RE space look at markets that are drivable but may be under your radar. Network. Continue to analyze deals. Get to know some successful RE investors and you’ll find they share their knowledge for free. I’d think all of that will work better than a $3k course taught by physicians with just a few years under their belts and money made in a rapidly appreciating market.

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  • Lithium
    replied
    Originally posted by kev777zero View Post
    The Zero to Freedom course deadline just past today. A Facebook group was posting it the last few days. I googled reviews and ended up reading all 5 pages of this thread.

    I am interested in adding real estate for portfolio diversification reasons. I'm in Texas where affording a property downpayment is easy but property taxes are high. Whenever I try to do the math I find it hard to produce positive cashflow when you consider the property tax/HOA/insurance fees, not to mention possible maintenance and time periods where house might be vacant. My assumption are the properties that actually produce cash flow will get swept up in a moments notice. So I only end up gaining via appreciation, which may be awesome if I bought a house in Austin two years ago, but it's basically like the stock market - unpredictable. I now have some of what I wanted to use as real estate investment parked in Fundrise, which is basically private REIT that hopefully won't just follow the stock market.

    Anyways, I would like to learn more about real estate but have no idea where to enter, and wondering what these courses can offer (Zero to Freedom, Paul Pant, etc...) or just better off buying some books/good blogs to read (any recommendations)?
    I’ve been on the sidelines with direct RE for similar reasons - too difficult to find cash flowing properties where I live at current valuations, and it’s very competitive among investors.

    I assume it’s a lot easier to find cash flowing rentals in other parts of the country, such as the upper Midwest. You could read the Long distance real estate investor by David Greene (I could be messing up the title somewhat). After reading part of that book, I concluded it’s too much work and hassle for me. He describes pursing a somewhat active, market timing strategy (my words, not his) whereby he tries to read the market and buy and sell based on certain indicators. No thanks. The John T. Reed books are also supposed to be good.
    Any way you slice it, successful direct RE investing is a tremendous amount of work. Don’t let the course marketers make you think otherwise.

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  • kev777zero
    replied
    The Zero to Freedom course deadline just past today. A Facebook group was posting it the last few days. I googled reviews and ended up reading all 5 pages of this thread.

    I am interested in adding real estate for portfolio diversification reasons. I'm in Texas where affording a property downpayment is easy but property taxes are high. Whenever I try to do the math I find it hard to produce positive cashflow when you consider the property tax/HOA/insurance fees, not to mention possible maintenance and time periods where house might be vacant. My assumption are the properties that actually produce cash flow will get swept up in a moments notice. So I only end up gaining via appreciation, which may be awesome if I bought a house in Austin two years ago, but it's basically like the stock market - unpredictable. I now have some of what I wanted to use as real estate investment parked in Fundrise, which is basically private REIT that hopefully won't just follow the stock market.

    Anyways, I would like to learn more about real estate but have no idea where to enter, and wondering what these courses can offer (Zero to Freedom, Paul Pant, etc...) or just better off buying some books/good blogs to read (any recommendations)?

    Leave a comment:


  • CordMcNally
    replied
    Originally posted by Fugue View Post
    The WCI courses are a positive example of critical knowledge at a fair price. I’m not sure these other experts jumping into the ring are doing the same. Are these coaches and gurus all that different from the predatory financial advisors we try so hard to avoid?
    There’s grifters and slimy people in every profession.

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  • Fugue
    replied
    This course is over $3k now I believe.

    there are more testimonials out there then when this thread began (I think the Prudent PS got started with them) but I remain skeptical of their salesy tactics and agree it’s overpriced compared to other similar courses. Their website is just written in such a sleazy way.

    It is ironic that while the central mantra of most of us here is to avoid salespeople and overpriced services targeting doctors, as the physician finance blogosphere has grown, we’ve seen a proportional rise in highly priced services advertising directly to physicians (physician coaching, ZtF, syndications) that many could argue are overpriced and enriching the “coaches” at the expense of doctors.

    The WCI courses are a positive example of critical knowledge at a fair price. I’m not sure these other experts jumping into the ring are doing the same. Are these coaches and gurus all that different from the predatory financial advisors we try so hard to avoid?

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  • pit.alumni
    replied
    I'd be skeptical about buying any sort of RE investing course. From what I gather they have been doing this for 6-7 years. RE does not have to be that complicated, it basically relies on elementary school math. There are tons of investors who have been doing this their whole career, and guess what, most of them will share their knowledge for free. It's their gig, and they like talking about it. I'm a self taught RE investor and have never had a problem getting my questions answered. Now with the bigger pockets forum you can ask just about anything and will get tons of advice. While you have to separate the wheat from the chaff, you will find you get a lot of responses from experienced investors who only want to talk RE and share their experiences. As you know RE has been on a tear this past decade so investments made several years ago were often like shooting fish in a barrel, anything bought made money. Find someone who owns more than a couple rentals and buy them lunch, they'll be happy to talk real estate. Right now, a lot of us our on the sidelines, since with current prices it's hard to make a decent cash on cash return in the current environment. However, RE is local, so I imagine there are areas that are still investable. Kudos to the two that are putting on the course, no doubt they are making more from the course than they are in RE. "Those who can do, those who can't teach."

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  • Turf Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Lithium View Post

    Thanks for the link. $1597 for a whole year, which I believe is less than half what the ZTF course costs.
    I find it hard to take seriously any RE investment material that is specifically marketed to MDs.
    It’s always been kind of funny to me that it’s a trope that doctors are bad with money and that if you see a bunch of doctors in an investment with you - run. But, many of the affiliated services of WCI are specifically targeted at doctors, for obvious reasons.

    I do find real estate much more intimidating than simple index fund investing though. Not sure why but I’d be more likely to purchase material about real estate I think.

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