Fast Fire PoF post

[Lordosis]

https://www.physicianonfire.com/generational-wealth/

Did anyone else get the feeling that this and it's prior post was kinda stinky?
I have read (if not all) a vast majority of PoFs posts. I obviously cannot agree with everything but this really turns me off. It just seems to run counter to everything else recommended. As physicians we already have the golden ticket and the trick to cashing it in is living within one's means and investing the difference in a reasonable way. If you want to "Fast FIRE" You can live well within your means and check out after 10 years or so.

[Lithium]

Parts of the post are intriguing but it quickly descends into smokescreens and sales pitches, almost WLI bad. They make it sound like finding a competent property manager and other professionals is a piece of cake. He also lost me when he said $200k in index funds throws off $8k in interest a year which if you’re in the 25% tax bracket means you keep $2k. They must spend most of their time on the bigger pockets forum because they obviously don’t know how index funds are taxed.

I totally agree that FastFire is achievable with zero investing in real estate. If you are saving over half your income and living like a resident you can avoid all the jiggery pokery these guys are discussing.

I did order Cory Fawcett’s new book after Jim recommended it on the podcast. Worst case scenario I am out $25 rather than whatever that course costs, and unlike the course I could always let friends borrow the book or sell it on Amazon when I’m done with it.

[Lordosis]

I agree. There is nothing wrong with RE investing I just do not think there is any magic in it. It is also more work especially if done in the way described.

Also the part about putting a 100K into the quadplex and doubling the rent which will double the value of the building. That is a big assumption. Unless you are doing the work yourself how much can you really improve 4 apartments with 100K that will double your rental income?
I am no expert in RE but that smells bad to me.

[fatlittlepig]

You obviously are ignorant of the secrets of real estate investing therefore I recommend you take the real estate course.

[CordMcNally]

I hope we don't start seeing more of these "get rich quick scheme" posts. It's always been kind of a pet peeve of mine when something financially related (I do believe there is value with relation to physician business structures and contracts) is marketed towards physicians. Honestly, there's very few differences between the path to financial success for physicians and anyone else that has a high income. The main difference is physicians have a higher income floor than most all other professions and are notoriously bad with finances.

[fatlittlepig]

Lordosis Hey thanks for pointing me to this article. Wow the physician on fire blog is now promoting real estate investing “courses”?

Drs. Asakura and Alto have opened their popular real estate investing course, Financial Freedom Through Cashflowing Rentals, and enrollment remains available for a few more days. I’ll include more info and a special bonus for my readers at the end of the post.

i read that and didn’t read any further. Sounds like a pitch you would hear on a late night infomercial. I think I’ll stick to saving and investing.

[Lithium]

To be fair Jim was plugging the course in his podcast this week too. I hope it has been properly been vetted and that people don’t lose their shirt.

5+ years ago before PIMD and others had a blog I think that John T Reed was the most recommended resource for real estate investing. He seldom tells readers what they want to hear (e.g. 25% returns year after year tax free) but his books were a lot cheaper. No one makes any money promoting that though. That being said, I’m not sure what has changed in terms of tax law or the investment climate to make his advice any less relevant.

[Lordosis]

I must have missed that in the podcast. I only read the post and I skip the topics that are not applicable to me, Student loans, Private practice stuff, Scams...

[EntrepreneurMD]

Thanks Lordosis. This article can be very helpful for those of us doing well with real estate investing but want to take it to the next level. Just because there is a sales pitch embedded in the article doesn't mean it doesn't provide good information.

The clarity may not be there until you are in or near the 1% (by assets), who hold a larger percentage of their assets between their business and real estate (often the real estate houses the business) than in the equities markets. A lot of real estate has to do with the tax benefits, and the higher up the economic ladder the more amplified the tax advantages.

[fatlittlepig]

One should be extremely dubious of anyone selling a course that partners the term "fast" with building wealth. Personally I feel the Physician on Fire is doing a disservice to his readers but giving this a platform (is he really advocating that physicians take on the burden and risk of investing in real estate to build wealth..) Perhaps the next post on his blog should be a rebuttal and counterpoint of the many liberties and assumptions taken..

[jacoavlu]

Thanks Lordosis. This article can be very helpful for those of us doing well with real estate investing but want to take it to the next level.... The clarity may not be there until you are in or near the 1% (by assets), who hold a larger percentage of their assets between their business and real estate (often the real estate houses the business) than in the equities markets. A lot of real estate has to do with the tax benefits, and the higher up the economic ladder the more amplified the tax advantages.

#humblebrag

the post has almost nothing to do with your situation. Or if you think I'm wrong, explain to me how so.

[fatlittlepig]

One more point, if I may, FLP would just feel awful selling a $2100 course and have a honest hard working physician take out a mortgage, in a leveraged real estate deal, then attempt to remodel a property, then possibly end up either having difficulty achieving stable tenancy or finding a buyer... It's one thing to take your own risks with your own hard earned money (more power to you) but it's a whole another thing entirely to sell a course, take someone else's money and advocate them to do the same.

[jacoavlu]

the real estate professional status is actually intriguing and I'm sure it's a very advantageous tax strategy for a high income professional that can manage to do both - continue working and making good money as a doc/dentist/etc, while also being a legit real estate professional

[White.Beard.Doc]

As a rule, people with full-time jobs outside of real estate cannot qualify as a real estate professional for tax purposes. To qualify, you must spend (1) over 50% of your work time in a real estate business or businesses (a difficult to meet criterion for a physician), and (2) over 750 hours working in all your real estate businesses during the year.

However, if a physician's spouse can qualify as a real estate professional, then you both get the tax advantages. Imagine writing off the paper losses on your real estate investments against your medical income, pretty sweet!

Here's a link to an article that explains the rules:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tax-advantages-landlords-married-real-estate-professionals.html

[jacoavlu]

thanks for the link... spouse real estate professional status could be an extremely valuable tax maneuver especially for someone already doing real estate investing... maybe I could buy my wife the course for Christmas instead of that handbag she wanted

[EntrepreneurMD]

#humblebrag

the post has almost nothing to do with your situation. Or if you think I'm wrong, explain to me how so.

A lot of this PoF article is about real estate and tax benefits thereof. I would like to optimize tax efficiencies given my effective tax rate. Also, having a significant cushion when accumulating appropriate levels of real estate confers less risk in the event of something unforeseen, such as unexpected repairs or a downturn in RE until recovery.

Also, I'm not really referring to my own situation rather to this article that I have referenced before:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/composition-of-wealth/

[The White Coat Investor]

To be fair Jim was plugging the course in his podcast this week too. I hope it has been properly been vetted and that people don’t lose their shirt.

5+ years ago before PIMD and others had a blog I think that John T Reed was the most recommended resource for real estate investing. He seldom tells readers what they want to hear (e.g. 25% returns year after year tax free) but his books were a lot cheaper. No one makes any money promoting that though. That being said, I’m not sure what has changed in terms of tax law or the investment climate to make his advice any less relevant.

You guys are being silly. The reason you can FIRE faster with real estate is leverage. Leverage up, take more risk, put in a bunch of additional work and boom, if everything works out you can FIRE faster. There's no magic there, it's just math. If you don't want to do it with real estate, you can do it leveraging up stocks and working more in your practice. The FIRE FASTER take is just because POF's blog has a FIRE focus, so that's the spin on everything he writes. When I plug this course (and I do plug this course, here's my affiliate link: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/rental which if you go through you get not only the course, but a signed copy of my latest book) I focus more on it being a way to learn how to do direct real estate well rather than FIRING FASTER. It fits my audience better.

There's no scam here. They tell you what you are going to get and they give it to you. There is even a money back period similar to my course. Whether there is enough value to justify the cost depends on the student. For some people, there's tons and tons of value there. For others, not so much. Those others shouldn't buy the course.

This is no different from my online course. What's in there that cannot be learned from reading every blog post I ever wrote, listening to every podcast, reading my books, and asking a few questions on this forum? Nothing. But does that mean there isn't a $500 value in compiling that information into one place and organizing it? I can tell you that dozens of people a month think the value is there. Same thing with this real estate course. Most people don't buy it. But even if just 1% of the audience buys it, it's a money maker.

None of you guys bought my online course. It was still the right decision to make it and promote it, both as a business decision AND as a way to serve a certain portion of my audience. People who hang out on financial forums all day don't buy online courses. But they sometimes forget they are a tiny minority of the audience of these blogs.

[Lordosis]

Maybe I am experiencing some level of "If it is not my way it is the wrong way" But I feel that the assumptions and promises that this course is being sold on are just bad.
The White Coat Investor I never took your course but I have read basically all your other material. So I did it the long hard way. Even without taking your course I would recommend it to others because I have a very good idea what it contains and it would be worth $500 for that knowledge if someone wanted to learn in weeks what could take months.
However if you promoted your course by claiming it would teach how to get 15% market returns and live like a king then it would also stink. However, you have a reasonable expectation on what the market will return and you promote living within your means.

Desperate people do desperate things and look for easy answers like 25% returns and recession proof RE.

Ultimately it is your call because it is your house. Just giving my opinion.