Implosion of small radiology private practice

[VagabondMD]

CM wrote:

q-school wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

CordMcNally wrote:

Get a jump and start looking. Even if everything with your current job turns out “ok”, you may find a better opportunity. I’m sorry the senior partners are providing very poor leadership and decision making.

Click to expand…

There is a significant shortage of radiologists out there on the streets, and it has become a game of musical chairs, in reverse. Too many chairs, not enough people for the number of seats. Excellent leadership and decision making will still suffer if you do not have enough bodies to deploy. Our group went from having two too many bodies in January (when the OP posted) to two few bodies today, having lost four people since then.

I am 100% certain that if you are a rad with average training, an average skill set, average contacts, and an average work ethic, you could be easily working in a new job within 90 days. If a new group takes over, it is highly likely that they will hire you to work where you currently practice since they do not have the excess capacity; nobody does. Private practices, corporate radiology groups, and academic practices are all shorthanded. (Unfortunately for me, it means that I am working full time from 5/1 through the end of the year…at least. )

Click to expand…

They pulled you back in!

Click to expand…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UneS2Uwc6xw

(at the one minute mark)

Click to expand...

Classic! Hopefully I will not go down The Godfather path. While I have watched I and II multiple times (including this past February), I watched III in the theater 29 years ago and not since. I do not remember the story arc at all.

[Hatton]

Vagabond MD wrote:

CM wrote:

q-school wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

CordMcNally wrote:

Get a jump and start looking. Even if everything with your current job turns out “ok”, you may find a better opportunity. I’m sorry the senior partners are providing very poor leadership and decision making.

Click to expand…

There is a significant shortage of radiologists out there on the streets, and it has become a game of musical chairs, in reverse. Too many chairs, not enough people for the number of seats. Excellent leadership and decision making will still suffer if you do not have enough bodies to deploy. Our group went from having two too many bodies in January (when the OP posted) to two few bodies today, having lost four people since then.

I am 100% certain that if you are a rad with average training, an average skill set, average contacts, and an average work ethic, you could be easily working in a new job within 90 days. If a new group takes over, it is highly likely that they will hire you to work where you currently practice since they do not have the excess capacity; nobody does. Private practices, corporate radiology groups, and academic practices are all shorthanded. (Unfortunately for me, it means that I am working full time from 5/1 through the end of the year…at least. )

Click to expand…

They pulled you back in!

Click to expand…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UneS2Uwc6xw

(at the one minute mark)

Click to expand…

Classic! Hopefully I will not go down The Godfather path. While I have watched I and II multiple times (including this past February), I watched III in the theater 29 years ago and not since. I do not remember the story arc at all.

Click to expand...

Michael is still trying to quit the mafia.  The family keeps pulling him back in just like your contacts.  The first is my favorite.

[VagabondMD]

hatton1 wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

CM wrote:

q-school wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

CordMcNally wrote:

Get a jump and start looking. Even if everything with your current job turns out “ok”, you may find a better opportunity. I’m sorry the senior partners are providing very poor leadership and decision making.

Click to expand…

There is a significant shortage of radiologists out there on the streets, and it has become a game of musical chairs, in reverse. Too many chairs, not enough people for the number of seats. Excellent leadership and decision making will still suffer if you do not have enough bodies to deploy. Our group went from having two too many bodies in January (when the OP posted) to two few bodies today, having lost four people since then.

I am 100% certain that if you are a rad with average training, an average skill set, average contacts, and an average work ethic, you could be easily working in a new job within 90 days. If a new group takes over, it is highly likely that they will hire you to work where you currently practice since they do not have the excess capacity; nobody does. Private practices, corporate radiology groups, and academic practices are all shorthanded. (Unfortunately for me, it means that I am working full time from 5/1 through the end of the year…at least. )

Click to expand…

They pulled you back in!

Click to expand…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UneS2Uwc6xw

(at the one minute mark)

Click to expand…

Classic! Hopefully I will not go down The Godfather path. While I have watched I and II multiple times (including this past February), I watched III in the theater 29 years ago and not since. I do not remember the story arc at all.

Click to expand…

Michael is still trying to quit the mafia.  The family keeps pulling him back in just like your contacts.  The first is my favorite.

Click to expand...

I remember the quote and scene. It’s about all I remember from GIII.

[Jon T Snow]

Be careful with what you are asking for.    I agree that while it is currently an "all hands on deck" time in Radiology, AI (at least in the case of Mammography) makes my life harder, not easier.

[VagabondMD]

Jon T Snow wrote:

Be careful with what you are asking for.    I agree that while it is currently an “all hands on deck” time in Radiology, AI (at least in the case of Mammography) makes my life harder, not easier.

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You know nothing, @JonTSnow !

Mammo CAD is crude, old school technology, poor man’s AI.

[photon]

Thanks So much for all your advice and replies. It’s hard to maintain perspective when something so big is out of your control but affect you greatly.

[photon]

Thanks vagabond, I have found your posts and our specialty to be insightful and thoughtful. I hope you get back to part time soon

[VagabondMD]

photon wrote:

Thanks vagabond, I have found your posts and our specialty to be insightful and thoughtful. I hope you get back to part time soon

Click to expand...

Hang in there, man. There might be some changes, but you will be fine.

[Raddoc123]

Vagabond MD wrote:

Dusn wrote:

I remember just a few years ago all my radiology friends could not find jobs and now there’s a shortage of radiologists? So weird.

Click to expand…

The radiology job market is cyclical. The last trough to the most recent ?peak represents the largest swing I have seen in my 23 years of practice. Bring on AI, and bring on the robots. We need all hands on deck to get the work done.

Click to expand...

Rad job market has been either hot or very cold during my 20 yrs which is suboptimal.  This “shortage” is different in that many of the jobs are undesirable, employed, corporate, poor pay for the amount of work, bad hours, etc.   I bet that once the academic departments scream shortage we will have some sort of short sighted fix which will be bad for the field. The shortage will hopefully kill all the corporate skimmers including universities taking over community hospitals.  They have been getting too good a deal for too long.

My colleagues and I entertain the idea of switching but have worries about jumping from bad to worse given the current conditions.  You will likely join an understaffed department with new problems, malignant a holes, malignant admin. Have to learn things you haven’t done in years and learn a new system.   If you join a partnership they may sell to corporate or be one of those tiered or scam partnerships.  Fun times!

[MSooner]

Raddoc123 wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

Dusn wrote:

I remember just a few years ago all my radiology friends could not find jobs and now there’s a shortage of radiologists? So weird.

Click to expand…

The radiology job market is cyclical. The last trough to the most recent ?peak represents the largest swing I have seen in my 23 years of practice. Bring on AI, and bring on the robots. We need all hands on deck to get the work done.

Click to expand…

Rad job market has been either hot or very cold during my 20 yrs which is suboptimal.  This “shortage” is different in that many of the jobs are undesirable, employed, corporate, poor pay for the amount of work, bad hours, etc.   I bet that once the academic departments scream shortage we will have some sort of short sighted fix which will be bad for the field. The shortage will hopefully kill all the corporate skimmers including universities taking over community hospitals.  They have been getting too good a deal for too long.

My colleagues and I entertain the idea of switching but have worries about jumping from bad to worse given the current conditions.  You will likely join an understaffed department with new problems, malignant a holes, malignant admin. Have to learn things you haven’t done in years and learn a new system.   If you join a partnership they may sell to corporate or be one of those tiered or scam partnerships.  Fun times!

Click to expand...

Covering my ears and screaming "lalalala I cant hear you* (About to start the rad job hunt). JK

I'm wondering about the academic side of things, too. A few weeks ago, no less than SIX rads announced their departure from my husband's training institution in one week--seemingly mostly headed to PP. The pay differential is too great and their workload has increased--I don't blame them. The change in attitude has been pretty stunning. ~2 year ago when my husband interviewed for fellowship, they told him if he wanted to stay at the institution, he would need to do a 2nd fellowship. He flat out (nicely) told them that wasn't going to happen. Then they had a bunch of people in that division leave and they are now asking him to stay, 2nd fellowship be damned. "We can train you in the areas we need in house!" We've been watching job listings for 2 years now and noticed a similar trend in other academic depts. The job listings used to require that 2nd fellowship. Now the exact same listings have done away with the wording altogether or changed to "2nd fellowship preferred."

On that note, I came across this "gem" last night. UVA is gettin' creative! https://jobs.acr.org/job/instructor-non-trainee/47855003/

That being said, we have found some seemingly good opportunities. Mostly through networking and outside of major cities.

 

 

[G]

MSooner wrote:

Raddoc123 wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

Dusn wrote:

I remember just a few years ago all my radiology friends could not find jobs and now there’s a shortage of radiologists? So weird.

Click to expand…

The radiology job market is cyclical. The last trough to the most recent ?peak represents the largest swing I have seen in my 23 years of practice. Bring on AI, and bring on the robots. We need all hands on deck to get the work done.

Click to expand…

Rad job market has been either hot or very cold during my 20 yrs which is suboptimal.  This “shortage” is different in that many of the jobs are undesirable, employed, corporate, poor pay for the amount of work, bad hours, etc.   I bet that once the academic departments scream shortage we will have some sort of short sighted fix which will be bad for the field. The shortage will hopefully kill all the corporate skimmers including universities taking over community hospitals.  They have been getting too good a deal for too long.

My colleagues and I entertain the idea of switching but have worries about jumping from bad to worse given the current conditions.  You will likely join an understaffed department with new problems, malignant a holes, malignant admin. Have to learn things you haven’t done in years and learn a new system.   If you join a partnership they may sell to corporate or be one of those tiered or scam partnerships.  Fun times!

Click to expand…

Covering my ears and screaming “lalalala I cant hear you* (About to start the rad job hunt). JK

I’m wondering about the academic side of things, too. A few weeks ago, no less than SIX rads announced their departure from my husband’s training institution–seemingly mostly headed to PP. The pay differential is too great and their workload has increased–I don’t blame them. The change in attitude has been pretty stunning. ~2 year ago when my husband interviewed for fellowship, they told him if he wanted to stay at the institution, he would need to do a 2nd fellowship. He flat out (nicely) told them that wasn’t going to happen. Then they had a bunch of people in that division leave and they are now asking him to stay, 2nd fellowship be damned. “We can train you in the areas we need in house!” We’ve been watching job listings for 2 years now and noticed a similar trend in other academic depts. The job listings used to require that 2nd fellowship. Now the exact same listings have done away with the wording altogether or changed to “2nd fellowship preferred.”

On that note, I came across this “gem” last night. UVA is gettin’ creative! https://jobs.acr.org/job/instructor-non-trainee/47855003/

That being said, we have found some seemingly good opportunities. Mostly through networking and outside of major cities.

 

 

Click to expand...

so that's like a faculty/non-faculty, fellow/non-fellow, huh?

[TheHappyPhilosopher]

It is likely there will be a shortage or radiologists for some time to come. The radiology workforce is not young, there are not enough being trained, and the boomer wave of medical consumption has just begun. Every rad I've talked to has said the same thing: super busy, short staffed, difficult to recruit good people. Likely whatever happens they will still need radiologists to do the work where you are currently working. Most of the time when groups are taken over many of the rads there are offered jobs. Good luck!

[Raddoc123]

MSooner wrote:

Raddoc123 wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

Dusn wrote:

I remember just a few years ago all my radiology friends could not find jobs and now there’s a shortage of radiologists? So weird.

Click to expand…

The radiology job market is cyclical. The last trough to the most recent ?peak represents the largest swing I have seen in my 23 years of practice. Bring on AI, and bring on the robots. We need all hands on deck to get the work done.

Click to expand…

Rad job market has been either hot or very cold during my 20 yrs which is suboptimal.  This “shortage” is different in that many of the jobs are undesirable, employed, corporate, poor pay for the amount of work, bad hours, etc.   I bet that once the academic departments scream shortage we will have some sort of short sighted fix which will be bad for the field. The shortage will hopefully kill all the corporate skimmers including universities taking over community hospitals.  They have been getting too good a deal for too long.

My colleagues and I entertain the idea of switching but have worries about jumping from bad to worse given the current conditions.  You will likely join an understaffed department with new problems, malignant a holes, malignant admin. Have to learn things you haven’t done in years and learn a new system.   If you join a partnership they may sell to corporate or be one of those tiered or scam partnerships.  Fun times!

Click to expand…

Covering my ears and screaming “lalalala I cant hear you* (About to start the rad job hunt). JK

I’m wondering about the academic side of things, too. A few weeks ago, no less than SIX rads announced their departure from my husband’s training institution in one week–seemingly mostly headed to PP. The pay differential is too great and their workload has increased–I don’t blame them. The change in attitude has been pretty stunning. ~2 year ago when my husband interviewed for fellowship, they told him if he wanted to stay at the institution, he would need to do a 2nd fellowship. He flat out (nicely) told them that wasn’t going to happen. Then they had a bunch of people in that division leave and they are now asking him to stay, 2nd fellowship be damned. “We can train you in the areas we need in house!” We’ve been watching job listings for 2 years now and noticed a similar trend in other academic depts. The job listings used to require that 2nd fellowship. Now the exact same listings have done away with the wording altogether or changed to “2nd fellowship preferred.”

On that note, I came across this “gem” last night. UVA is gettin’ creative! https://jobs.acr.org/job/instructor-non-trainee/47855003/

That being said, we have found some seemingly good opportunities. Mostly through networking and outside of major cities.

 

 

 

I agree that there are seemingly (at least on paper) good opportunities in mid to small sized cities, especially in the Midwest.  But corporates and university health systems have taken practices over even in places like that.  So watch out.  They are not going to tell you they’re close to selling the practice and you get screwed.

Corporates of all kinds will underpay you for the amount of work, work you very hard, understaff and make you feel like a dispensable farm animal.

[VagabondMD]

MSooner wrote:

On that note, I came across this “gem” last night. UVA is gettin’ creative! https://jobs.acr.org/job/instructor-non-trainee/47855003/

Click to expand...

Hybrid attending/fellowship positions are not new. I had two co-resident friends who took positions like this at MIR nearly 25 years ago. Both stayed at the Mothership for a few years, weathered a crummy job market, and eventually left for private practice.

[MSooner]

G wrote:

MSooner wrote:

Raddoc123 wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

Dusn wrote:

I remember just a few years ago all my radiology friends could not find jobs and now there’s a shortage of radiologists? So weird.

Click to expand…

The radiology job market is cyclical. The last trough to the most recent ?peak represents the largest swing I have seen in my 23 years of practice. Bring on AI, and bring on the robots. We need all hands on deck to get the work done.

Click to expand…

Rad job market has been either hot or very cold during my 20 yrs which is suboptimal.  This “shortage” is different in that many of the jobs are undesirable, employed, corporate, poor pay for the amount of work, bad hours, etc.   I bet that once the academic departments scream shortage we will have some sort of short sighted fix which will be bad for the field. The shortage will hopefully kill all the corporate skimmers including universities taking over community hospitals.  They have been getting too good a deal for too long.

My colleagues and I entertain the idea of switching but have worries about jumping from bad to worse given the current conditions.  You will likely join an understaffed department with new problems, malignant a holes, malignant admin. Have to learn things you haven’t done in years and learn a new system.   If you join a partnership they may sell to corporate or be one of those tiered or scam partnerships.  Fun times!

Click to expand…

Covering my ears and screaming “lalalala I cant hear you* (About to start the rad job hunt). JK

I’m wondering about the academic side of things, too. A few weeks ago, no less than SIX rads announced their departure from my husband’s training institution–seemingly mostly headed to PP. The pay differential is too great and their workload has increased–I don’t blame them. The change in attitude has been pretty stunning. ~2 year ago when my husband interviewed for fellowship, they told him if he wanted to stay at the institution, he would need to do a 2nd fellowship. He flat out (nicely) told them that wasn’t going to happen. Then they had a bunch of people in that division leave and they are now asking him to stay, 2nd fellowship be damned. “We can train you in the areas we need in house!” We’ve been watching job listings for 2 years now and noticed a similar trend in other academic depts. The job listings used to require that 2nd fellowship. Now the exact same listings have done away with the wording altogether or changed to “2nd fellowship preferred.”

On that note, I came across this “gem” last night. UVA is gettin’ creative! https://jobs.acr.org/job/instructor-non-trainee/47855003/

That being said, we have found some seemingly good opportunities. Mostly through networking and outside of major cities.

 

 

Click to expand…

so that’s like a faculty/non-faculty, fellow/non-fellow, huh?

Click to expand...

I think it is "we want a new IR grad for $250K" (I found a payscale awhile back because Charlottesville is lovely, but appears an assistant professor would start at a whopping $270k. I'm assuming "Instructor, Non-Trainee" would be paid less)

Another question--thoughts on markets in states that prohibit hospitals (except for specifically academic institutions) from employing radiologists (and usually anesthesia)? I know the risk of a corporate buyout is still there, but do you think it helps?