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Basic question and apologies if it's been asked... How early in the job search process is it acceptable to discuss the compensation stricure with a prospective employer?
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Immediately. -
Day 1 for me so as to not waste my time, unless it was a dream job location that I did t want to screw up in which case I would want to know before round 2 of interviewsComment
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Sometime during day 1 - THEY should be bringing it up really. If they are avoiding, there's a reason.
Edit: in fact; should be part of their presentation and in written form : role/responsibility - work expectations - and compensation. with benefits all delineated out to reference and discuss freely.Comment
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Agreed, immediately.
I interviewed at some places who told me it wasn't proper to discuss pay at the first meeting.
I politely informed them that there wouldn't be a second meeting.
I'm here to work and get paid. Everything is secondary for me. If the compensation structure doesn't work, there's little chance I would be interested in the job no matter what else they can offer.Comment
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I talk about it either immediately in the initial phone call with the recruiter or owner/group. Im not flying out or wasting my time visiting some place that cant tell me at least their road map and idea of how paid (production, guarantee, salary, mix, etc...) and their expected range to start, etc...
Not polite...lol. That is a strange thing to say. Wasting someones time is polite? Some people do have older traditions about their practices, however, that can probably be extended to other aspects of their practice and management. I treat those things like Buffets cockroaches quote, "theres never just one". Red flags.Comment
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It's not always immediately, but that's not bad advice. I didn't find out my compensation until a later meeting with my current group. How much you make in year one should be about the 11th most important thing in your job search. My co-resident who practices on the East Coast essentially had a contract in his hand with a salary on the first meeting with each group. But that's not how it was for me in the Midwest.
Also, it's not how much you make in year one that matters. It's what you make in year 5, 6, etc. In fact, in orthopaedics, your starting salary in year one is almost inversely proportional to how much you will/could make in year 5. Private practices that are well run don't need to "Pay it forward" like a rural-ish hospital would looking for someone.Comment
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It’s not always immediately, but that’s not bad advice. I didn’t find out my compensation until a later meeting with my current group. How much you make in year one should be about the 11th most important thing in your job search. My co-resident who practices on the East Coast essentially had a contract in his hand with a salary on the first meeting with each group. But that’s not how it was for me in the Midwest.
Also, it’s not how much you make in year one that matters. It’s what you make in year 5, 6, etc. In fact, in orthopaedics, your starting salary in year one is almost inversely proportional to how much you will/could make in year 5. Private practices that are well run don’t need to “Pay it forward” like a rural-ish hospital would looking for someone.
If a place is unwilling to be up front about the pay, thats not restricted to simply starting pay, which I totally agree is not the most important aspect of pay. How/why you get paid, making partner, cost, and what revenue streams and costs you're buying into are far more important. Having a transparent discussion on where they see you and you see yourself in a few years is also great, ie, partner/owner, etc....not that they will keep to their word but it should be discussed.Comment
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f a place is unwilling to be up front about the pay, thats not restricted to simply starting pay, which I totally agree is not the most important aspect of pay. How/why you get paid, making partner, cost, and what revenue streams and costs you’re buying into are far more important. Having a transparent discussion on where they see you and you see yourself in a few years is also great, ie, partner/owner, etc….not that they will keep to their word but it should be discussed.
I agree with all of this. If you ask and they don't tell you, that's a red flag. They didn't tell me, because I didn't ask. But I would have signed with the same group whether my starting salary was 200k or 300k so I didn't ask. But I knew of the earning potential. And if anything, my future earning potential and what my partners earn was understated.Comment
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It’s not always immediately, but that’s not bad advice. I didn’t find out my compensation until a later meeting with my current group. How much you make in year one should be about the 11th most important thing in your job search. My co-resident who practices on the East Coast essentially had a contract in his hand with a salary on the first meeting with each group. But that’s not how it was for me in the Midwest.
Also, it’s not how much you make in year one that matters. It’s what you make in year 5, 6, etc. In fact, in orthopaedics, your starting salary in year one is almost inversely proportional to how much you will/could make in year 5. Private practices that are well run don’t need to “Pay it forward” like a rural-ish hospital would looking for someone.
I definitely agree there is a lot more to compensation than year 1 salary. But starting pay is important, far from 11th on the list. You may not even be there in year 5 or 6. A practice's or hospital's salary structure may change altogether by years 5 or 6. If there is a partnership track then you want that spelled out in writing from day one.
You should definitely focus on the long-term, but for many, what your salary is in year 1 is going to dictate what you make in year 2, be a basis for any future raises, etc. The worst thing you can do is start out making significantly sub-market for a period of years where you are waiting on a mere promise or hope of a raise or partnership which never comes to fruition.
A bird in the hand, and all of that.
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definitely agree there is a lot more to compensation than year 1 salary. But starting pay is important, far from 11th on the list. You may not even be there in year 5 or 6. A practice’s or hospital’s salary structure may change altogether by years 5 or 6. If there is a partnership track then you want that spelled out in writing from day one. You should definitely focus on the long-term, but for many, what your salary is in year 1 is going to dictate what you make in year 2, be a basis for any future raises, etc. The worst thing you can do is start out making significantly sub-market for a period of years where you are waiting on a mere promise or hope of a raise or partnership which never comes to fruition.
Ok, here ya go. In no particular order. I guess I should have said 10th most important. The other factors are more related to my happiness than my starting salary. I could probably break down location to about 4 different major things too. #3 and #7 don't apply to me now because I'm just starting year 3.
1. Location
2. Who your partners/colleagues are
3. What your income will be in years 3, 4, etc
4. How much call you take
5. What your call is like
6. Who runs the practice
7. What ancillary income there is, if any
8. How much autonomy you get
9. Your bonus incentives
10. Your starting salary
This is more applicable for private practice. I agree that negotiating a good starting salary for a hospital job is more important. Year 5 and 6 are tied to year one most likely in that scenario.
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