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  • #16
    Originally posted by White.Beard.Doc View Post

    There is one potential issue with this approach. If you get audited, the money becomes taxable income unless you have the receipts to prove that the money was spent on what the IRS classifies as reasonable and ordinary business expenses. And I would think the employer could face problems as well, for paying employees untaxed dollars without receipts on file to prove that the expenses were reasonable and ordinary business expenses.

    The recently low audit rates may make the risk of an audit low, but just the same, I would not want to be the unlucky one to find out the hard way that I owe lots of back taxes with penalties.
    I believe the places that do this classify it as income while having the taxes already withheld. Like one place offered $3k of CME money but when it's done it's like you get $4k or so so after taxes are removed you end up with $3k/year. If they didn't, I agree with you that I would be concerned but it seems like they already thought of this.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by B1GM0N3Y86 View Post

      I believe the places that do this classify it as income while having the taxes already withheld. Like one place offered $3k of CME money but when it's done it's like you get $4k or so so after taxes are removed you end up with $3k/year. If they didn't, I agree with you that I would be concerned but it seems like they already thought of this.
      The organization can pay employees any way they want. However, the employer is at a much higher risk than the employee for payments made to employees. Accountable vs non-accountable plan is the employer's responsibility. You can get a flat car allowance or CME but it is taxable compensation without accounting for the funds.
      I doubt any employers want to assume risk for no benefit. Same gross expense to them. Some to you and some to uncle sam. Turn in the receipts.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by B1GM0N3Y86 View Post
        Really hope more places start doing what I've seen recently when I was applying for jobs. The CME funds were included in your biweekly/monthly paycheck across the year for you to use it as you see fit (books, equipment, registrations, courses, etc...).

        At least this way it does away with the gimmick nonsense of buying/returning books, and tracking receipts to get your $ refunded after the fact of purchasing things.

        Just seems like a pain in the butt to do each year to collect your $5k. Instead of forcing us to buy each year it kind of allows you to buy things as you seem fit. If you use a bit more this year, you have less next year and vice versa.

        CME is really anything that can be considered educational to your ability to practice medicine. At least that is what I got out of it. When in doubt, ask if whatever you consider purchasing qualifies prior to buying.

        Just my 2 cents.
        Employees don’t care, they just want their money. Employers do care because if not done properly it can cause unnecessary headaches. An an employer, we do watch this and follow the law.

        Comment


        • #19
          We all either use for vacations where they pay for hotel, flight, and conference or during times of Covid I used board vitals and I think it was 4 k to earn 2500 gift card?

          I think technically you’re supposed to submit that as taxable income… technically…

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by BePu View Post
            Buy medical books from Amazon, get reimbursed from CME money, return to Amazon
            I am assuming this was posted as a joke, but just to be clear - do not do this. If you are wondering who would even investigate something like this or what is the worst that could happen, the answer is - the Department of Justice and jail.

            https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/f...travel-expense

            Department of Justice
            U.S. Attorney’s Office
            District of Maryland
            FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
            Friday, July 7, 2017Former Johns Hopkins Physician Pleads Guilty To Fraud Scheme Involving Travel Expense Reimbursements


            July 7, 2017

            FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact ELIZABETH MORSE

            www.justice.gov/usao/mdat (410) 209-4885



            Baltimore, Maryland – On July 7, 2017, Dr. Jean-Francois Geschwind, age 53, of Westport, Connecticut, pled guilty to four counts of mail fraud arising from a multi-year scheme to unlawfully obtain travel expense reimbursements from his former employer, the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. Geschwind was employed as a physician in the Division of Vascular and Interventional Radiology between 1998 and 2015.



            The guilty plea was announced by Acting United States Attorney for the District of Maryland Stephen M. Schenning; Special Agent in Charge Gordon B. Johnson of the Federal Bureau of Investigation - Baltimore Field Office; and Marilyn J. Mosby, the State’s Attorney for Baltimore City.



            According to his plea agreement, between 2007 and July 2015, Geschwind made material misrepresentations and omissions in travel expense statements that he submitted or caused to be submitted to the JHU-SOM, for the purpose of obtaining travel expense reimbursements to which he was not entitled. During this time period, Geschwind submitted multiple travel expense statements for purported business expenses, when he knew that the claimed expenses were personal, such as family vacations and meals. For example, during the summer of 2013, Geschwind obtained reimbursement from the JHU-SOM for a 13-day vacation to the United Kingdom and France by falsely representing that the he traveled to those locations to give lectures in connection with his work for the JHU-SOM. As a result of Geschwind’s material misrepresentations, the JHU-SOM issued three separate checks that included reimbursements for his family vacation.



            Geschwind also obtained reimbursement from the JHU-SOM for expenses that he knew had already been paid, or would later be paid, by a second (and in some cases a third) entity. In seeking reimbursement for such expenses, Geschwind did not disclose to the JHU-SOM that he was seeking two (and in some cases three) reimbursements for the same expense.



            For example, between July 1 and July 5, 2015, Geschwind traveled to Japan to attend the Asia Pacific Primary Liver Cancer Expert (APPLE) meeting. By the time he attended the APPLE meeting, Geschwind had joined the Yale School of Medicine faculty as Chair of the Department of Diagnostic Radiology. Prior to his departure for the APPLE meeting, Geschwind arranged for reimbursement of his round-trip airfare to Japan by Company No. 1, a life-sciences company based in France. Notwithstanding this arrangement, on May 8, 2015, Geschwind sought reimbursement for the same expense from the JHU-SOM but did not disclose that he had already sought reimbursement for his round-trip airfare from Company No. 1. As a result of this material omission, the JHU-SOM issued a check to Geschwind that included reimbursement for his round-trip airfare to and from Japan.



            On or about June 22, 2015, Geschwind sought reimbursement from the Yale School of Medicine for the above-referenced round-trip airfare to Japan. Geschwind did not disclose to Yale that he had already arranged for payment of the same expense by Company No. 1, or that he had in fact been reimbursed for that expense by the JHU-SOM. On or about July 21, 2015, as a result of Geschwind’s material omissions, Yale University issued a check to Geschwind for the cost of the round-trip airline ticket.



            In July of 2015, Company No. 1 initiated a wire transfer to Geschwind’s Bank of America checking account that included reimbursement for his round-trip airline ticket to Japan. Accordingly, as a result of the material omissions, Geschwind obtained three separate payments, from three separate entities, for the round-trip airfare to Japan in July of 2015.



            Through the various methods identified above, Geschwind obtained money with an aggregate value of hundreds of thousands of dollars, in the form of travel expense reimbursements by the JHU-SOM.



            Johns Hopkins investigators in the Office of Hopkins Internal Audit (OHIA) conducted an extensive audit of Geschwind’s reimbursement requests and upon discovering he had requested and received significant sums of inappropriate payments, they referred the case to law enforcement. Hopkins investigators worked closely with authorities to assist with their investigation.





            Geschwind faces a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz has scheduled sentencing for September 7, 2017 at 12:00 p.m.



            Acting United States Attorney Stephen M. Schenning commended the FBI and the Baltimore City State’s Attorney’s Office for their work in the investigation. Mr. Schenning thanked Assistant United States Attorney Peter J. Martinez and Special Assistant United States Attorney Alexander Huggins, who are prosecuting the case.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Thalnos View Post

              I am assuming this was posted as a joke, but just to be clear - do not do this. If you are wondering who would even investigate something like this or what is the worst that could happen, the answer is - the Department of Justice and jail.
              There is a big difference between taking a family on vacation to UK and buying books on Amazon and returning them.. Both are frauds, but one has a much higher chance of getting audited.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Kamban View Post

                There is a big difference between taking a family on vacation to UK and buying books on Amazon and returning them.. Both are frauds, but one has a much higher chance of getting audited.
                Those are the words I couldn’t put together succinctly. Very interesting case, though - sounds like he had gone over to the dark side pretty aggressively.
                Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory and ignorant advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Kamban View Post

                  There is a big difference between taking a family on vacation to UK and buying books on Amazon and returning them.. Both are frauds, but one has a much higher chance of getting audited.
                  agree very different but risk/reward ratio similar. If someone returns a couple hundred dollars of books, yes they are less likely to get caught but on the other hand, their financial gain in relation to their income is also essentially negligible in the larger scheme of things. Would be unwise for someone to consider committing fraud, even at the smallest level for negligible financial gain. Equally unwise when done on a large scale as mentioned in the article. Then the gain is more significant but so are risks. Not a good idea in any form.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Thalnos View Post

                    I am assuming this was posted as a joke, but just to be clear - do not do this. If you are wondering who would even investigate something like this or what is the worst that could happen, the answer is - the Department of Justice and jail.

                    https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/f...travel-expense

                    Department of Justice
                    U.S. Attorney’s Office
                    District of Maryland
                    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
                    Friday, July 7, 2017Former Johns Hopkins Physician Pleads Guilty To Fraud Scheme Involving Travel Expense Reimbursements


                    July 7, 2017

                    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact ELIZABETH MORSE

                    www.justice.gov/usao/mdat (410) 209-4885



                    Baltimore, Maryland – On July 7, 2017, Dr. Jean-Francois Geschwind, age 53, of Westport, Connecticut, pled guilty to four counts of mail fraud arising from a multi-year scheme to unlawfully obtain travel expense reimbursements from his former employer, the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. Geschwind was employed as a physician in the Division of Vascular and Interventional Radiology between 1998 and 2015.



                    The guilty plea was announced by Acting United States Attorney for the District of Maryland Stephen M. Schenning; Special Agent in Charge Gordon B. Johnson of the Federal Bureau of Investigation - Baltimore Field Office; and Marilyn J. Mosby, the State’s Attorney for Baltimore City.



                    According to his plea agreement, between 2007 and July 2015, Geschwind made material misrepresentations and omissions in travel expense statements that he submitted or caused to be submitted to the JHU-SOM, for the purpose of obtaining travel expense reimbursements to which he was not entitled. During this time period, Geschwind submitted multiple travel expense statements for purported business expenses, when he knew that the claimed expenses were personal, such as family vacations and meals. For example, during the summer of 2013, Geschwind obtained reimbursement from the JHU-SOM for a 13-day vacation to the United Kingdom and France by falsely representing that the he traveled to those locations to give lectures in connection with his work for the JHU-SOM. As a result of Geschwind’s material misrepresentations, the JHU-SOM issued three separate checks that included reimbursements for his family vacation.



                    Geschwind also obtained reimbursement from the JHU-SOM for expenses that he knew had already been paid, or would later be paid, by a second (and in some cases a third) entity. In seeking reimbursement for such expenses, Geschwind did not disclose to the JHU-SOM that he was seeking two (and in some cases three) reimbursements for the same expense.



                    For example, between July 1 and July 5, 2015, Geschwind traveled to Japan to attend the Asia Pacific Primary Liver Cancer Expert (APPLE) meeting. By the time he attended the APPLE meeting, Geschwind had joined the Yale School of Medicine faculty as Chair of the Department of Diagnostic Radiology. Prior to his departure for the APPLE meeting, Geschwind arranged for reimbursement of his round-trip airfare to Japan by Company No. 1, a life-sciences company based in France. Notwithstanding this arrangement, on May 8, 2015, Geschwind sought reimbursement for the same expense from the JHU-SOM but did not disclose that he had already sought reimbursement for his round-trip airfare from Company No. 1. As a result of this material omission, the JHU-SOM issued a check to Geschwind that included reimbursement for his round-trip airfare to and from Japan.



                    On or about June 22, 2015, Geschwind sought reimbursement from the Yale School of Medicine for the above-referenced round-trip airfare to Japan. Geschwind did not disclose to Yale that he had already arranged for payment of the same expense by Company No. 1, or that he had in fact been reimbursed for that expense by the JHU-SOM. On or about July 21, 2015, as a result of Geschwind’s material omissions, Yale University issued a check to Geschwind for the cost of the round-trip airline ticket.



                    In July of 2015, Company No. 1 initiated a wire transfer to Geschwind’s Bank of America checking account that included reimbursement for his round-trip airline ticket to Japan. Accordingly, as a result of the material omissions, Geschwind obtained three separate payments, from three separate entities, for the round-trip airfare to Japan in July of 2015.



                    Through the various methods identified above, Geschwind obtained money with an aggregate value of hundreds of thousands of dollars, in the form of travel expense reimbursements by the JHU-SOM.



                    Johns Hopkins investigators in the Office of Hopkins Internal Audit (OHIA) conducted an extensive audit of Geschwind’s reimbursement requests and upon discovering he had requested and received significant sums of inappropriate payments, they referred the case to law enforcement. Hopkins investigators worked closely with authorities to assist with their investigation.





                    Geschwind faces a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz has scheduled sentencing for September 7, 2017 at 12:00 p.m.



                    Acting United States Attorney Stephen M. Schenning commended the FBI and the Baltimore City State’s Attorney’s Office for their work in the investigation. Mr. Schenning thanked Assistant United States Attorney Peter J. Martinez and Special Assistant United States Attorney Alexander Huggins, who are prosecuting the case.
                    For anyone interested, brief googling revealed 9 months in prison, 75k fine and 583k restitution.

                    583k...makes that book scam look like the HS Frosh football team playing the AZ Cardinals on Monday Night Football.

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