Left practice, group cutting off Fee-For Service Residual payments

[The White Coat Investor]

Zaphod wrote:

The White Coat Investor wrote:

DrW00kie wrote:

Another update if anyone is interested:

My former group made a small miscalculation, and forgot to tell the billing company to stop sending me my collections, so I received a very large deposit at the beginning of August, and then I promptly received an email asking me to mail them a check to return the erroneous deposit. My lawyer advised me to hold on to the money.

The law firm sent a very strongly worded demand letter to my former group a few days ago, and I received my first offer from the group.

1) They are offering 3 months of collections (which includes the deposit error that they already made). They believe this would represent ~%90 of the collections that return.

2) They want me to retroactively pay for my ‘tail’ coverage for the last 8 months, totalling almost $10k. The reasoning is that they began to pay it in those months as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

3) They will increase their retainer fee from 5% to 6%, because they state it was lowered in the last year as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

4) It also comes with the demand that I speak of this to no one currently employed in the group.

    I suspect that I’ll counter aggressively and ask for all collections they ever receive from my service. It was their choice to pay for my tail coverage, I’m not going to pay them back. I really don’t see a problem with giving them the 3rd point, and I may give them their 6% as a way of being conciliatory. As far as not telling people in the group, that’s hard; because one is a good friend who I still haven’t mentioned any of this to.

We’ll see how it goes.

Thank you again to everyone who offered advice or support. I might have just given up without all of you.

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That seems like a pretty good offer to me. Maybe I’d counter with them paying that “tail” (which doesn’t make sense since there is no such thing as 8 months of tail coverage.) I think I’d take that and leave. You’ll probably spend more on attorney fees trying to get your last 10%.

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That supposes they are being truthful about percentages. Attorneys fees are minimal at this time, and there is a lot of non financial good feelings in getting what youre owed and not backing down from an abusive situation. They already caved on a letter, their contract is total bunk and they arent legally entitled to anything. They know this, and are now just hoping for anything. They also have attorney fee issues, and given they have no standing it will cost them more.

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Sure, drag it out for 3 years for $8K. That seems like a productive use of your time and money.

[Zaphod]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

DrW00kie wrote:

Another update if anyone is interested:

My former group made a small miscalculation, and forgot to tell the billing company to stop sending me my collections, so I received a very large deposit at the beginning of August, and then I promptly received an email asking me to mail them a check to return the erroneous deposit. My lawyer advised me to hold on to the money.

The law firm sent a very strongly worded demand letter to my former group a few days ago, and I received my first offer from the group.

1) They are offering 3 months of collections (which includes the deposit error that they already made). They believe this would represent ~%90 of the collections that return.

2) They want me to retroactively pay for my ‘tail’ coverage for the last 8 months, totalling almost $10k. The reasoning is that they began to pay it in those months as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

3) They will increase their retainer fee from 5% to 6%, because they state it was lowered in the last year as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

4) It also comes with the demand that I speak of this to no one currently employed in the group.

    I suspect that I’ll counter aggressively and ask for all collections they ever receive from my service. It was their choice to pay for my tail coverage, I’m not going to pay them back. I really don’t see a problem with giving them the 3rd point, and I may give them their 6% as a way of being conciliatory. As far as not telling people in the group, that’s hard; because one is a good friend who I still haven’t mentioned any of this to.

We’ll see how it goes.

Thank you again to everyone who offered advice or support. I might have just given up without all of you.

Click to expand…

That seems like a pretty good offer to me. Maybe I’d counter with them paying that “tail” (which doesn’t make sense since there is no such thing as 8 months of tail coverage.) I think I’d take that and leave. You’ll probably spend more on attorney fees trying to get your last 10%.

Click to expand...

That supposes they are being truthful about percentages. Attorneys fees are minimal at this time, and there is a lot of non financial good feelings in getting what youre owed and not backing down from an abusive situation. They already caved on a letter, their contract is total bunk and they arent legally entitled to anything. They know this, and are now just hoping for anything. They also have attorney fee issues, and given they have no standing it will cost them more.

[q-school]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

DrW00kie wrote:

Another update if anyone is interested:

My former group made a small miscalculation, and forgot to tell the billing company to stop sending me my collections, so I received a very large deposit at the beginning of August, and then I promptly received an email asking me to mail them a check to return the erroneous deposit. My lawyer advised me to hold on to the money.

The law firm sent a very strongly worded demand letter to my former group a few days ago, and I received my first offer from the group.

1) They are offering 3 months of collections (which includes the deposit error that they already made). They believe this would represent ~%90 of the collections that return.

2) They want me to retroactively pay for my ‘tail’ coverage for the last 8 months, totalling almost $10k. The reasoning is that they began to pay it in those months as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

3) They will increase their retainer fee from 5% to 6%, because they state it was lowered in the last year as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

4) It also comes with the demand that I speak of this to no one currently employed in the group.

    I suspect that I’ll counter aggressively and ask for all collections they ever receive from my service. It was their choice to pay for my tail coverage, I’m not going to pay them back. I really don’t see a problem with giving them the 3rd point, and I may give them their 6% as a way of being conciliatory. As far as not telling people in the group, that’s hard; because one is a good friend who I still haven’t mentioned any of this to.

We’ll see how it goes.

Thank you again to everyone who offered advice or support. I might have just given up without all of you.

Click to expand…

That seems like a pretty good offer to me. Maybe I’d counter with them paying that “tail” (which doesn’t make sense since there is no such thing as 8 months of tail coverage.) I think I’d take that and leave. You’ll probably spend more on attorney fees trying to get your last 10%.

Click to expand...

Boom!  Done.

this is good advice.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

DrW00kie wrote:

Another update if anyone is interested:

My former group made a small miscalculation, and forgot to tell the billing company to stop sending me my collections, so I received a very large deposit at the beginning of August, and then I promptly received an email asking me to mail them a check to return the erroneous deposit. My lawyer advised me to hold on to the money.

The law firm sent a very strongly worded demand letter to my former group a few days ago, and I received my first offer from the group.

1) They are offering 3 months of collections (which includes the deposit error that they already made). They believe this would represent ~%90 of the collections that return.

2) They want me to retroactively pay for my ‘tail’ coverage for the last 8 months, totalling almost $10k. The reasoning is that they began to pay it in those months as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

3) They will increase their retainer fee from 5% to 6%, because they state it was lowered in the last year as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

4) It also comes with the demand that I speak of this to no one currently employed in the group.

    I suspect that I’ll counter aggressively and ask for all collections they ever receive from my service. It was their choice to pay for my tail coverage, I’m not going to pay them back. I really don’t see a problem with giving them the 3rd point, and I may give them their 6% as a way of being conciliatory. As far as not telling people in the group, that’s hard; because one is a good friend who I still haven’t mentioned any of this to.

We’ll see how it goes.

Thank you again to everyone who offered advice or support. I might have just given up without all of you.

Click to expand...

That seems like a pretty good offer to me. Maybe I'd counter with them paying that "tail" (which doesn't make sense since there is no such thing as 8 months of tail coverage.) I think I'd take that and leave. You'll probably spend more on attorney fees trying to get your last 10%.

[The White Coat Investor]

I can't believe the contract doesn't spell out explicitly what happens if things don't work out. That's the whole point of a contract. You don't need a contract when everything works out.

I think it really comes down to what the contract language says about what "fee for service" means. You mean you were paid at the end of month 13 based on what you billed in month 13? If so, that's not fee for service. Fee for service means you didn't get paid at the end of month 13 because nothing had been collected yet. If you're paid based on what you billed or RVUS or whatever that month, then you don't deserve squat after you stop working. That's totally fair and reasonable. So the $80K you're giving up now is really just the $80K they used to pay you in months 13-15. You were paid as agreed for months 1-12, right?

[East coast]

Wow, incredible incompetence on their part that they sent that portion for presumably nothing in return (of course you worked/earned it, but just talking in terms of this negotiation process). Now you've confirmed they are not only not forthcoming business partners, but they are pretty bad at business/negotiation too! Sounds like you're dodging a bullet by leaving. Keep sticking up for yourself, Bravo!

[Hank]

They want to keep you silent so they can screw over other docs in the future.  The heck with that!

[DrW00kie]

Another update if anyone is interested:

My former group made a small miscalculation, and forgot to tell the billing company to stop sending me my collections, so I received a very large deposit at the beginning of August, and then I promptly received an email asking me to mail them a check to return the erroneous deposit. My lawyer advised me to hold on to the money.

The law firm sent a very strongly worded demand letter to my former group a few days ago, and I received my first offer from the group.

1) They are offering 3 months of collections (which includes the deposit error that they already made). They believe this would represent ~%90 of the collections that return.

2) They want me to retroactively pay for my 'tail' coverage for the last 8 months, totalling almost $10k. The reasoning is that they began to pay it in those months as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

3) They will increase their retainer fee from 5% to 6%, because they state it was lowered in the last year as a way of trying to keep me from leaving.

4) It also comes with the demand that I speak of this to no one currently employed in the group.

    I suspect that I'll counter aggressively and ask for all collections they ever receive from my service. It was their choice to pay for my tail coverage, I'm not going to pay them back. I really don't see a problem with giving them the 3rd point, and I may give them their 6% as a way of being conciliatory. As far as not telling people in the group, that's hard; because one is a good friend who I still haven't mentioned any of this to.

We'll see how it goes.

Thank you again to everyone who offered advice or support. I might have just given up without all of you.

[G]

DrW00kie wrote:

Thank you to everyone for your help and advice. I had a contract specialist review both contracts I had been working under. They agree with me, there is no language that specifies what would happen to residual collections following leaving the group; however he suspects that the group withholding my collections for services already rendered may fall afoul of certain business and professions code. The plan is that they will help me craft an official letter to the group specifying my position, and if they do not acquiesce, to push the case towards arbitration. Here’s hoping for the best. Thank you.

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Good for you for pursuing.  My feel is that it will be easier to pay you what you are owed than for a small EM group to risk a trial/judgment.  You might even suggest that if they don't pay you what is rightfully yours as well as the fees you have incurred so far (i.e. contract specialist)--and prove that you have been made whole with end of year financial disclosure--you have been advised that you should seek punitive damages as well.  At a minimum, my guess is that arbitration would have the loser pay the costs--for you, this would be a relatively small risk for a potential big gain (compare to the group which is a small risk for a small gain per partner).

You've been remarkably restrained and equitable to your old partners.  If it were me, I would be firing off ethics/business complaints to the hospital, state medical board and medical association, state treasurer, BBB and definitely to ACEP (hopefully you/they are members).  Heck, depending on how scorched earth you want to get, your local newspaper might even be interested.  Even if none of this results in a formal censure, your old partners [should] be mortified that their behavior/finances are being discussed publicly.

[q-school]

welcome to the real world.  it is rough out there.

sorry you had to experience it this way.  it's hard when you realize not everyone is nice or interested in being fair.



on the bright side, glad you are in a better practice now!

 

[DrW00kie]

Thank you to everyone for your help and advice. I had a contract specialist review both contracts I had been working under. They agree with me, there is no language that specifies what would happen to residual collections following leaving the group; however he suspects that the group withholding my collections for services already rendered may fall afoul of certain business and professions code. The plan is that they will help me craft an official letter to the group specifying my position, and if they do not acquiesce, to push the case towards arbitration. Here's hoping for the best. Thank you.

[jfoxcpacfp]

You are obviously a very decent and nice person. Sounds like your former colleagues are very good at hiring physicians who assume the best, take it on the chin, and move along quietly - glad you're standing up for yourself.

As pulmdoc said, no wonder they can't recruit. I hope you have a more specific contract this time.

[DrW00kie]

Vagabond MD wrote:

Let me try this explanation:

As I understand it, the first year you were salaried, so there is no beef.

Years 2 and 3, you were compensated based on your billings (collections minus expenses), correct?

Did you continue to draw salary immediately after Year 1, in month 13? If you did, this would have been before the collections of month 13 would have hit the books, and you were essentially being advanced your salary at that point. In other words, they paid you your month 37 AR draw in month 13…and month 38 in month 14, etc.

If you did not receive monetary compensation in month 13, you do have a legitimate beef, no matter what the contract says. Speaking of which, I have never heard of a professional contract that does not have separation language. Seems strange…

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The timing is a little confusing, paid on a 30 day period. So month 2, received month 1 hourly pay and so on. Month 13 received month 12 hourly pay. Month 14, received that totality of collections for month 13, minus malpractice, billing company fees, and an administrative fee.

[DrW00kie]

adventure wrote:

If nothing else, be a decent person, and tell your previous colleagues.

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Unfortunately, I already had an idea this might be coming, another fee-for-service group member left last year and the same thing happened. She chose not to pursue it. I guess I supposed that since I left under better circumstances it would not happen to me. Obviously I'm learning my lesson about assuming anything.

[adventure]

If nothing else, be a decent person, and tell your previous colleagues.