Surgeon with summers off or part-time?

[endo4jc]

Just curious-- is this a unicorn job? What is the average private practice/employed ortho trauma job like? I'm starting Ortho residency in July. Love ortho trauma, but my mentors have tried to sway me away from trauma due to lifestyle.

It’s my first job out of training so don’t have anything to compare to except the academic jobs from my residency and fellowship. The trauma lifestyle is not what it once was as more studies support that most open fractures can go the following day, etc. Having an ortho trauma room available each day is a requirement to make the lifestyle work. My friends on the elective ortho side work a lot harder than me (more hours, more cases, etc). They will very likely make much more than me. I’m the sole income earner for my family, and we very easily live on my salary.

[BruinBones]

Just curious-- is this a unicorn job? What is the average private practice/employed ortho trauma job like? I'm starting Ortho residency in July. Love ortho trauma, but my mentors have tried to sway me away from trauma due to lifestyle.

goneriding, if your mentors are Ortho Trauma and have been doing it for over 15 years, the opportunities are different than when they came out of residency. If your mentors are not Ortho Trauma, then respectfully take their feedback with a grain of salt because they are not really in the trauma loop. Alot of the ortho trauma here in suburban Florida is as endo4jc described. And, things may still change over the next 5 years.

[goneriding]

Ortho trauma here. My two partners and I split the month of call however we want. So usually 10-11 days in whatever block configuration I choose (I make the schedule). Level 2 call. Independent contractor. Essentially no elective practice. Salaried. One day of clinic every three weeks.

I am making hay while the sun is shining. Love the time at home with my spouse, 19 month old daughter. Second daughter due in June. Plenty of time to travel.... but COVID and toddlers have delayed that.

Just curious-- is this a unicorn job? What is the average private practice/employed ortho trauma job like? I'm starting Ortho residency in July. Love ortho trauma, but my mentors have tried to sway me away from trauma due to lifestyle.

[Tim]

His older about to retire partners give up some of their PM calls and weekends (and they have bigger buy downs anyways). So maybe that’s an option at some point. For now, he likes the research aspect and not traveling and missing kid time. But who knows by time we get to FI he may be burnt out and ready to do part time locums or stop clinical all together. Hard to predict the future.

Not mentioned, the time available/needed/desired for family activities drastically changes too. The ability to “change back” to increase the workload needs to be considered. Your desires likely will change in the future. Easy to predict that kids develop independence. Might be easy, might not.

[mamaham]

It’sp possible but probably not the practice a surgeon can easily get. Part time for a surgeon essentially is locums.

I’ve heard of job share, or 2 surgeons splitting the responsibility of 1, but even more rare in practice.

His older about to retire partners give up some of their PM calls and weekends (and they have bigger buy downs anyways). So maybe that’s an option at some point. For now, he likes the research aspect and not traveling and missing kid time. But who knows by time we get to FI he may be burnt out and ready to do part time locums or stop clinical all together. Hard to predict the future.

[Eye3md]

I once met a cardiothoracic surgeon on a ski lift. He job-shared with a friend-colleague who liked to golf. They each predominantly worked six months of the year, with some interdigitation in the spring and fall.

Wow, what a cool situation to luck upon. One likes winter sports, and the other likes summer sports. That’s awesome

[VagabondMD]

I once met a cardiothoracic surgeon on a ski lift. He job-shared with a friend-colleague who liked to golf. They each predominantly worked six months of the year, with some interdigitation in the spring and fall.

[Nysoz]

I'll be happy if surgeon spouse gets two weeks off (in a row) this summer.... working on switches to see if it's possible.... and with all the virtual meetings now I bet vacation will have some of those thrown in.

I hope it works out for you though! Just don't tell me because I will be jealous.

Real conversation:

Me: When we reach FI, will you be able to cut back on hours... maybe go part-time.... ?
Surgeon: No.
Me: WCI says it's possible? Why not?
Surgeon: You should have married an ED doc. (lol)

It’s possible but probably not the practice a surgeon can easily get. Part time for a surgeon essentially is locums.

I’ve heard of job share, or 2 surgeons splitting the responsibility of 1, but even more rare in practice.

[endo4jc]

Ortho trauma here. My two partners and I split the month of call however we want. So usually 10-11 days in whatever block configuration I choose (I make the schedule). Level 2 call. Independent contractor. Essentially no elective practice. Salaried. One day of clinic every three weeks.

I am making hay while the sun is shining. Love the time at home with my spouse, 19 month old daughter. Second daughter due in June. Plenty of time to travel.... but COVID and toddlers have delayed that.

[EastBayHand]

I'm private practice ortho (hand) and agree with the above statements about call responsibilities and referral patterns. You don't want to be known as the guy who is "never around." I'm in a similar stage of life/practice as you and also enjoy spending time with my kids and traveling. My compromise has been to make Thursday mornings my OR time, and I leave Thursday afternoons open for "extra curricular" activities. That, alone, really helps my mental health. But then if I want to take a long weekend, I will take off Friday (office day), which means I'm really off on Thursday when my cases are done. Sometimes, that can be at 9 or 10am (couple of quick cases). That basically gives me a 4-day weekend and perfect for trips with the family. My PA astutely pointed out the other day that I'm taking nearly every other Friday off through Spring and Summer. So while I'm never actually "gone" for weeks at a time, I certainly FEEL like I'm traveling a lot and hardly working. As WCI puts it, I'm merely "cutting my hours down to full time."

[mamaham]

I'll be happy if surgeon spouse gets two weeks off (in a row) this summer.... working on switches to see if it's possible.... and with all the virtual meetings now I bet vacation will have some of those thrown in.

I hope it works out for you though! Just don't tell me because I will be jealous.

Real conversation:

Me: When we reach FI, will you be able to cut back on hours... maybe go part-time.... ?
Surgeon: No.
Me: WCI says it's possible? Why not?
Surgeon: You should have married an ED doc. (lol)

[BruinBones]

I was a hospital employed Ortho for several years each at two different places. I don't think you will get exactly what you want. The best I can see it is you will not be offered part-time, so just schedule the minimum number of hours you can where the administration will not hassle or question you (you can PM me on ways to do this). Also, the max I ever took off at one time was 2 weeks, which is probably what would be acceptable under your circumstances, again without receiving much criticism. Depending on how much PTO you have, you might be able to stretch that to 3 weeks.

[Anne]

A job share might be an option...but very difficult to find a compatible job-share partner.

Where I am ortho trauma and other acute ortho injuries go way up in the summer...but people tend to put truly elective Ortho surgeries off until the colder months as they don’t want to be recovering/rehabbing during the summer.

[wideopenspaces]

I wanted to do something similar, and I was part time and our department used to allow this. But a few years ago they stopped and said even if you were part time you had to work the same number of hours every week. Kind of a bummer. I switched jobs about 2 years ago and now I'm full time. This summer I'm wfh in Vermont for 5 weeks and I'll take 2 of those weeks off. Still not my ideal, but getting closer. My job is very chill and I've been able to save up like 9 weeks of vacation time over the last 2 years ( I get 5 weeks off each year). So starting next year I think I'm just going to take a month off every summer. But I'm outpatient, so a lot different than surgery. I hope you can figure it out! Let us know what your group says, I'm very curious.

[billy]

Depends on your partners. If the ones you work with all fight over the same holidays/school breaks like mine it's a steel cage royal rumble cockfight where only a select few emerge victorious.

back when I took call I volunteered to work every thanksgiving, christmas, hanukkah, easter (bc I have no kids) but asked for NYE/day and july 4th as my off holidays- which senior partners grumbled about.

Are there other orthos you work with who want more money and would be willing to cover your calls for cash? That can solve some (not all) of your call issues. Just offer a premium pay rate.