The PPP Thread

[jacoavlu]

speed vs specificity - can’t have both. Gov learned in housing crisis there were too many rules slowing down the process of getting people help. This time they favored speed.

[formerly_cn]

speed vs specificity - can’t have both. Gov learned in housing crisis there were too many rules slowing down the process of getting people help. This time they favored speed.

Agreed. What's done is done, but be in my shoes for a sec and think what I'm going through . You may have your PPP to have runway, what about other businesses who did everything right. See my previous post on Comerica bank didn't even take application and was tweeting about "we are here for you". That's like you being a rad reading CXR and refusing head CT on trauma or with low glasgow comma scale while reading full body MRI on a rich donor.

Anyways. No point rehashing.

[GastroMastro]

Incorrect. IC sole proprietor received/eligible for net 8 weeks income on schedule C. Three people I know got substantial $

? The law clearly says not to exceed >100k per year, annualized out to 8 weeks

[formerly_cn]

? The law clearly says not to exceed >100k per year, annualized out to 8 weeks

The aquaintances I mentioned could be lying I suppose. But here:
https://home.treasury.gov/system/fil...s-of-Loans.pdf

“For individuals with self-employment income who file a Schedule C, the Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary, has determined that it is appropriate to limit loan forgiveness to a proportionate eight-week share of 2019 net profit, as reflected in the individual’s 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C. This is because many self-employed individuals have few of the overhead expenses that qualify for forgiveness under the Act. For example, many such individuals operate out of either their homes, vehicles, or sheds and thus do not incur qualifying mortgage interest, rent, or utility payments. As a result, most of their receipts will constitute net income.”

CPA on this board can provide more info. I am going by what these aquantiances mentioned, and got. I am assuming its because of what I am quoting above.

You may be right. If so then there may be hope yet. Bank email just went out that they are very hopeful new funding coming. Keeping fingers crossed.

[EntrepreneurMD]

For those who don't work with a PPP participating institution, Amex is accepting applications for PPP, although I only have a CC with them and not a deposit account. I already applied with another lender, and for risk management purposes/FDIC have accounts with multiple institutions that could have processed my application. formerly_cn, don't depend on any one institution - they are there to make money off of you not help you in hard times. In most states lenders do not have a legal fiduciary duty.

It is generally best to minimize dependence on government support for survival. I fear this whole experiment is an unwanted step towards socialism - whether it be PPP dependence or bailouts in exchange for equity positions in larger corporations. While COVID has definitely interrupted our business, I keep multiple fold my PPP benefit in reserves to minimize risk for business failure, which protects my employees and their families. I look at this experience as an imposed stress test on my business and hope to learn where to improve from it. I'll reluctantly accept my PPP share, with an unease that on a macro level what is going on is not good.

Need a return to economic normalcy as soon as feasible. Unfortunately suspecting many personal and business foreclosures and bankruptcies in the meantime. 30M-45M+ unemployed when all is said and done. How quickly will these jobs return with a persistent demand shock (do you want to go to a ball game, Disney, or a crowded restaurant any time soon?). Closed borders. Banks already tightening lending standards - credit freeze? Mortgage defaults? It's gonna be a wild ride.

[GastroMastro]

The aquaintances I mentioned could be lying I suppose. But here:
https://home.treasury.gov/system/fil...s-of-Loans.pdf

“For individuals with self-employment income who file a Schedule C, the Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary, has determined that it is appropriate to limit loan forgiveness to a proportionate eight-week share of 2019 net profit, as reflected in the individual’s 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C. This is because many self-employed individuals have few of the overhead expenses that qualify for forgiveness under the Act. For example, many such individuals operate out of either their homes, vehicles, or sheds and thus do not incur qualifying mortgage interest, rent, or utility payments. As a result, most of their receipts will constitute net income.”

CPA on this board can provide more info. I am going by what these aquantiances mentioned, and got. I am assuming its because of what I am quoting above.

You may be right. If so then there may be hope yet

Thank you for reference. I agree Others input would be helpful here. I would be very interested in the confirmation that it is not to exceed >100k even for IC income

More importantly, how do you calculate 8 week? Divide net profit by 52 then multiply by 8? Or divide by 12 months then multiply by 2? It makes a difference. The latter is more favorable.

[formerly_cn]

For those who don't work with a PPP participating institution, Amex is accepting applications for PPP, although I only have a CC with them and not a deposit account. I already applied with another lender, and for risk management purposes/FDIC have accounts with multiple institutions that could have processed my application. formerly_cn, don't depend on any one institution - they are there to make money off of you not help you in hard times. In most states lenders do not have a legal fiduciary duty.

It is generally best to minimize dependence on government support for survival. I fear this whole experiment is an unwanted step towards socialism - whether it be PPP dependence or bailouts in exchange for equity positions in larger corporations. While COVID has definitely interrupted our business, I keep multiple fold my PPP benefit in reserves to minimize risk for business failure, which protects my employees and their families. I look at this experience as an imposed stress test on my business and hope to learn where to improve from it. I'll reluctantly accept my PPP share, with an unease that on a macro level what is going on is not good.

Need a return to economic normalcy as soon as feasible. Unfortunately suspecting many personal and business foreclosures and bankruptcies in the meantime. 30M-45M+ unemployed when all is said and done. How quickly will these jobs return with a persistent demand shock (do you want to go to a ball game, Disney, or a crowded restaurant any time soon?). Closed borders. Banks already tightening lending standards - credit freeze? Mortgage defaults? It's gonna be a wild ride.

Totally agreed. Not relying just discussing things I see. Not dying. But sucks to see business you worked hard for totally gone. Looking forward to building it back up.unfortunately I didn't keep many business reserves. May be that's the lesson here.

Yea I see tough road ahead.

[formerly_cn]

Thank you for reference. I agree Others input would be helpful here. I would be very interested in the confirmation that it is not to exceed >100k even for IC income

More importantly, how do you calculate 8 week? Divide net profit by 52 then multiply by 8? Or divide by 12 months then multiply by 2? It makes a difference. The latter is more favorable.

No clue. Those guys who claimed IC solo prop checks were boasting in a giant Watsapp group . I could ask them but doubt they will be forthcoming.

[GastroMastro]

No clue. Those guys who claimed IC solo prop checks were boasting in a giant Watsapp group . I could ask them but doubt they will be forthcoming.

Perhaps they got a large loan, but that doesn’t mean they will get a large forgiveness. Different banks may interpret the rule different and affect the final outcome. One thing is clear, banks are doing whatever they want with regards to ppp

[formerly_cn]

Perhaps they got a large loan, but that doesn’t mean they will get a large forgiveness. Different banks may interpret the rule different and affect the final outcome. One thing is clear, banks are doing whatever they want with regards to ppp

Well I contend:
1. I think it is easy to prove need while actually making lower income if you are doing telerad/telemedicine. It's lying but folks do it.
2. Lets say IRS can track it, well then they got 1% loan. Thats cheap cheap. Practically free money tbh.
3. Banks are getting some commission. Not sure it's profitable for them

[GastroMastro]

Well I contend:
1. I think it is easy to prove need while actually making lower income if you are doing telerad/telemedicine. It's lying but folks do it.
2. Lets say IRS can track it, well then they got 1% loan. Thats cheap cheap. Practically free money tbh.
3. Banks are getting some commission. Not sure it's profitable for them

I think very few IC if any will think they are winning if they get away with a. 1% loan. The real winner is the loan forgiveness. No IC is doing this for a 1% loan. A business with real capital expenditures and rent and all that, I get the desire for a low interest loan. But an IC? No way

[formerly_cn]

I think very few IC if any will think they are winning if they get away with a. 1% loan. The real winner is the loan forgiveness. No IC is doing this for a 1% loan. A business with real capital expenditures and rent and all that, I get the desire for a low interest loan. But an IC? No way

May be you are correct. They way these guys were boasting seemed they were going the system (as in will try to get free money if they can). I agree it's prolly not a big big chunk of $ anyways. I'm less upset and more trying to have discussion how to facilitate Small businesses etc and next funding round improvement.

[GastroMastro]

May be you are correct. They way these guys were boasting seemed they were going the system. I agree it's prolly not a big big chunk of $ anyways. I'm less upset and more trying to have discussion how to facilitate Small businesses etc and next funding round improvement.

seems like you have a grudge against these guys. ha. thats like being jealous of some dude who boasted he bought bitcoin at 5000, then it went to 10000. but now its back to 6000 so joke's on them.

[formerly_cn]

seems like you have a grudge against these guys. ha. thats like being jealous of some dude who boasted he bought bitcoin at 5000, then it went to 10000. but now its back to 6000 so joke's on them.

Well grduge in the sense that if these guys are pulling it how many are doing the same ? And when bank is telling me to wait for my legit business funding while inlet go of multiple employees then it seems like what ? Why ? I m not trying to say they are criminal. But sucks to get blocked lack of funding while these people are earning just fine.

(Incorrect info removed. -peds)

[VagabondMD]

...

Also see how vagabond md applied for unemployment. I suppose he could have followed these guys and gotten some multiple of income back. Who knows.

I am a contract employee, not an independent contractor, and would not be eligible for PPP, in any legitimate way.

(I missed most of the conversation, but I think that was the suggestion.)