The PPP Thread

[CordMcNally]

Sorry but I don't think you got my point.

I know three people who are IC sole proprietor doing fine doing remote work (telemedicine, teleradiology). Their income "drop" was like 10% or none. My question is they got 8 weeks of proportionate net income from last year schedule C as "free money". I have a business that hasn't received ANY money. Layer of 40 w2 employees. I applied FIRST GD day. These IC applied April 10th. I didn't get PPP money (it's pending)

You tell me what's fair. IC sole proprietor getting PPP is UNFAIR and I don't understand why are they allowed. For practical purposes IC sole proprietor who pays himself should file for unemployment but here they are barely a drop in income getting 8 weeks worth of free money.

Please tell me why I am wrong in this interpretation. And no, plenty of businesses didn't get money. as I mentioned , Comerica bank has YET to take application. Think about that.

We get your point but I think your anger is misplaced. I read that several banks were accepting applications without a previous relationship so it would probably be worth your time to research that for the next round of founding.

[CordMcNally]

And I know many more that abused it. Indo commend government for rolling this out. But abuse is unreal and doubly so when I am left hanging dry despite applying very early.

The ones who 'abused' it won't be able to justify that they needed the money so it will turn into a loan and it won't be forgivable, no?

[jacoavlu]

as far as I know no one yet knows the rules around loan forgiveness.

The spirit of the program was to encourage businesses with an uncertain near term future to keep employees on payroll who otherwise may have been let go.

my guess is that if a business does simply that, the loan will be forgiven

[formerly_cn]

We get your point but I think your anger is misplaced. I read that several banks were accepting applications without a previous relationship so it would probably be worth your time to research that for the next round of founding.

No they weren't. I applied to several. And FTR not as easy to see disappointment form your bank then transfer to new bank which already is serving it own customer. Again, did you go through the process ? I did and I know several restaurant owners who are planning on basically not being profitable for years. Some are done and trying to apply for bankruptcy loans waitingnoe ( still waiting on PPP.)

[formerly_cn]

The ones who 'abused' it won't be able to justify that they needed the money so it will turn into a loan and it won't be forgivable, no?

Lol serious ? Buddy the need would be easy to prove. Here it is :

I was reading images for cuz radiology group as IC and they told me to take a hike. So my income was zero

(Oh and I was then reading for another telerad company that was paying me but I won't tell you about it. Thanks for the 50k! Kaching!)

Please tell me how you'd verify it. And as I said, it doesn't matter I am simply saying where is the economic value for USA ? Losing 40 workers form my business ? Or an IC tele guy who has reduced income but is fine getting a fat check.

And no it's not difficult for govt tondo a simple test

1. IC employee of 1(sole proprietor): income gone ? Apply for unemployment (see Vagabond, he did. He didn't abuse the amsystem )

2. Business that actually pays 1099 or w2 to employees (not just self pay). Please use this money to survive.

How is that hard to implement. It's not.

[CordMcNally]

No they weren't. I applied to several. And FTR not as easy to see disappointment form your bank then transfer to new bank which already is serving it own customer. Again, did you go through the process ? I did and I know several restaurant owners who are planning on basically not being profitable for years. Still waiting on PPP.

How many banks are there in the US? And you applied to ‘several’ so your blanket statement doesn’t apply. Of course our group applied and it went pretty smooth.

[formerly_cn]

How many banks are there in the US? And you applied to ‘several’ so your blanket statement doesn’t apply. Of course our group applied and it went pretty smooth.

Really ? Which bank? Local bank? I bet its local. And I have no problem with group applying. I have problem with IC loophole and others abused there by hosing businesses like mine since money ran out. And you want me to apply to out of state local bank ? What ? Come on.

Ftr none of local banks were very favorable in the sense they would take appplcistion but would out me back of line AFTER serving their customer.

Good you got money but doesn't make my criticism wrong and it's not misplaced.

And please I am rooted in reality. Appreciate your advice but its not applicable readily.

I have apps pending at fundera, Kabbage and PayPal. Have done every thing.

And sorry if I don't take your word seriously since I rmr you downplayed even coronavirus last month on these very boards.

Good luck.

[Tim]

Rent is not in the loan amount computation, only in the forgiveness. The benefits are added to the salary/comp amount for qualifications. The balancing act is to get money into the hands of business as a life saving device. Don't take this wrong, the personal capital of physicians is durable. The small businesses are drowning. They drew a line, 500 employees as a limit and an amount based upon payroll. For a ready, fire , aim solution, they did an excellent job. Money to every social security and tax payer. Liberal unemployment benefits. NO KIDDING the systems weren't in place to hand out $2.2 trillion. Did you really expect them to be in place?
This is an administrative nightmare. I just hope the political elements don't screw it up. Somebody someplace did something! They did fantastic job! I just hope small businesses don't drowned in the political mess. Biggest risk.


The problem is there is no good way out. Household's and small business ARE the economy. Without that, government spending

[CordMcNally]

Really ? Which bank? Local bank? I bet its local. And I have no problem with group applying. I have problem with IC loophole and others abused there by hosing businesses like mine since money ran out. And you want me to apply to out of state local bank ? What ? Come on.

Ftr none of local banks were very favorable in the sense they would take appplcistion but would out me back of line AFTER serving their customer.

Good you got money but doesn't make my criticism wrong and it's not misplaced.

And please I am rooted in reality. Appreciate your advice but its not applicable readily.

I have apps pending at fundera, Kabbage and PayPal. Have done every thing.

And sorry if I don't take your word seriously since I rmr you downplayed even coronavirus last month on these very boards.

Good luck.

You know, I think I’m starting to understand why some banks weren’t jumping to help you out. I wish you the best of luck!

[formerly_cn]

Rent is not in the loan amount computation, only in the forgiveness. The benefits are added to the salary/comp amount for qualifications. The balancing act is to get money into the hands of business as a life saving device. Don't take this wrong, the personal capital of physicians is durable. The small businesses are drowning. They drew a line, 500 employees as a limit and an amount based upon payroll. For a ready, fire , aim solution, they did an excellent job. Money to every social security and tax payer. Liberal unemployment benefits. NO KIDDING the systems weren't in place to hand out $2.2 trillion. Did you really expect them to be in place?
This is an administrative nightmare. I just hope the political elements don't screw it up. Somebody someplace did something! They did fantastic job! I just hope small businesses don't drowned in the political mess. Biggest risk.


The problem is there is no good way out. Household's and small business ARE the economy. Without that, government spending

Well said. That is my argument. Heck I am a physician. But the plight of lowered income IC physician is nothing compared to let's take retail business , restruant or salon that was shut. These businesses got shut (not just reduced volume etc). Mine did.

Easy to pontificate and say - hey anger misplaced from a position of security.

Anyways, I do think new round of funding is around the corner and hope to receive the money as locally economy begins to open up.

[formerly_cn]

You know, I think I’m starting to understand why some banks weren’t jumping to help you out. I wish you the best of luck!

Ok. Why cause I speak the truth ? Please furnish your bank name or validly criticise my points. Since you can't then your arguments arent really valid.

Typical from someone saying "how many banks in USA". Non sequitor.

Thanks.

[CordMcNally]

Ok. Why cause I speak the truth ? Please furnish your bank name or validly criticise my points. Since you can't then your arguments arent really valid.

Typical from someone saying "how many banks in USA". Non sequitor.

Thanks.

I criticized all of your points. So far you’re upset about people submitting applications that meet the criteria set forth by the government. If they don’t meet the criteria for forgiveness then it’ll become a loan. If they meet the criteria then it’ll be forgiven. You also feel like they took ‘your’ money. There will be more money coming.

Yes, it’s a local bank in a metro area that our group has always used. It’s one bank out of hundreds in our metro area. You applied a very broad statement that no banks were taking applications from people/businesses without a previous relationship based on your experience of ‘several’ banks when I’ve seen anecdotes that have suggested otherwise.

I don’t think anything productive will come from our apparent disagreement so I won’t be continuing the conversation from my end. Again, I wish you the best of luck.

[formerly_cn]

1. I am simply criticising the system set up for improvement in future funding so govt can widen up to reduce abuse (precluding the applications with better criteria would help those still waiting in line) There will be more money coming isn't a guarantee. I hope but not true. And people on these boards are upset about whole life, why my being upset is so wrong ? I am discussing what I am seeing from my end.

A) no problem if you applied under current criteria. However I am criticising the criteria since it has been abused by IC sole proprieters. Better I'd unemployment as previously posted. You provided no counter points.

B) if it concerts to loan it's 1% . Cheap. Oh and people will prove need as I demonstrated. You provided no counterpoints

C) My money. Well if money was infinite who cares, since it isn't the ones who took the money in A) above did screw people with legit multi employee business still waiting. So fix A) and hold banks accountable.

2. You applied to local bank with existing relationship. So what? The issue is very few banks are even accepting non current clients and if so you are end of line i.e. not getting limited funding. Your anecdotes against my anecdotes, makes you right ? And I applied to several cuz I have several corporations.

3. Last point I agree, but consider if their loan isn't forgiven it's a 1% loan. That's reaching feds fundrate and that's the best debt you can get. Still abuse. And this isn't the first time we are 'disageeeing' month or so ago when I projected multiple deaths more than flu via simple model you downplayed it. Coronavirus has now killed more than Flu WITh social distancing and all the measures so yea...still you had to underhand comment about banks not working with me due to my direct way of posting here ? Ha!

thanks. Very gracious.

[Tim]

No they weren't. I applied to several. And FTR not as easy to see disappointment form your bank then transfer to new bank which already is serving it own customer. Again, did you go through the process ? I did and I know several restaurant owners who are planning on basically not being profitable for years. Some are done and trying to apply for bankruptcy loans waitingnoe ( still waiting on PPP.)

I previously posted this list from the SBA for ones not requiring relationships.

Thank you for your inquiry. The Paycheck Protection Program is a loan designed to provide a direct incentive for small businesses to keep their workers on the payroll. SBA will forgive loans if all employees are kept on the payroll for eight weeks and the money is used for payroll, rent, mortgage interest, or utilities.
You can apply through any existing SBA 7(a) lender or through any federally insured depository institution, federally insured credit union, and Farm Credit System institution that is participating. Other regulated lenders will be available to make these loans once they are approved and enrolled in the program. You should consult with your local lender as to whether it is participating in the program. To find a local lender, visit https://www.sba.gov/paycheckprotection/find.
If your lender is not participating, we received an email from One World Bank and they indicated they are ready to accept applications from business owners even though you do not have a banking relationship.

Here is the link they provided : https://www.oneworldbank.com/sba_ppp/.

Additionally, the following lenders have indicated have indicated they are opening to offering PPP loans to businesses that do not necessarily have an existing relationship with them:
.

1. Lakeside Bank
2. Texas Brand Bank
3. Dominion ( limited to DFW based businesses)
4. Midwest Regional
5. Vista Bank
6. Lendio

We cannot recommend one bank over another but the above mentioned bank has advised that they will help everyone.

[formerly_cn]

Tim thanks but lendio is the same as fundera / Kabbage. And lakeside bank never replied one other bank on list said we would take application but you'd have to wait till funding becomes available .

It's fine, my whole tirade is to point out the cluster it is out there, and how many businesses are still waiting on money from a perspective of someone who is a doc AND owns non medical busineds which is unique here. Getting your "group" money ...many here who got it. Which is great. No problem. I am highlighting what is happening, certain loopholes etc and how this process can be improved IF more money comes.