The PPP Thread

[jacoavlu]

according to Pence as of 4p EST today 20% of the $349B ppp money has been disbursed

https://twitter.com/mike_pence/status/1247610842058829827?s=21

[jacoavlu]

at the $50B mark (178k loans) the average loan was $280k

https://twitter.com/gop/status/1247689639579828224?s=21

would be interesting to know the number of jobs being protected since that is the stated goal. Average loan size divided by average number of jobs per application

[jacoavlu]

hey @ someone smart. Interpret this from recently released treasury FAQ re PPP loan

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequenty-Asked-Questions.pdf

Question: The CARES Act excludes from the definition of payroll costs any employee compensation in excess of an annual salary of $100,000. Does that exclusion apply to all employee benefits of monetary value?

Answer: No. The exclusion of compensation in excess of $100,000 annually applies only to cash compensation, not to non-cash benefits, including:
 employer contributions to defined-benefit or defined-contribution retirement plans;
 payment for the provision of employee benefits consisting of group health care coverage, including insurance premiums; and
 payment of state and local taxes assessed on compensation of employees.



so... loan not limited to $100k per employee?

[CordMcNally]

hey @ someone smart. Interpret this from recently released treasury FAQ re PPP loan

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequenty-Asked-Questions.pdf

Question: The CARES Act excludes from the definition of payroll costs any employee compensation in excess of an annual salary of $100,000. Does that exclusion apply to all employee benefits of monetary value?

Answer: No. The exclusion of compensation in excess of $100,000 annually applies only to cash compensation, not to non-cash benefits, including:
 employer contributions to defined-benefit or defined-contribution retirement plans;
 payment for the provision of employee benefits consisting of group health care coverage, including insurance premiums; and
 payment of state and local taxes assessed on compensation of employees.



so... loan not limited to $100k per employee?

That's my understanding that it's limited to $100k of salary PLUS the non-cash benefits.

[jacoavlu]

That's my understanding that it's limited to $100k of salary PLUS the non-cash benefits.

non cash benefits could be large as one example is employer contribution to defined benefit plan

that could be several hundred k per year

health insurance gets complicated for an s Corp 2% shareholder. Insurance premium paid by employer and included in shareholder W2 box 1 comp but not received by shareholder as cash, not subject to FICA

[CordMcNally]

non cash benefits could be large as one example is employee contribution to defined benefit plan

that could be several hundred k per year

health insurance gets complicated for an s Corp 2% shareholder. Insurance premium paid by employer and included in shareholder W2 box 1 comp but not received by shareholder as cash, not subject to FICA

It certainly can get complicated but neither of those apply to our group's situation.

[jhwkr542]

hey @ someone smart. Interpret this from recently released treasury FAQ re PPP loan

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequenty-Asked-Questions.pdf

Question: The CARES Act excludes from the definition of payroll costs any employee compensation in excess of an annual salary of $100,000. Does that exclusion apply to all employee benefits of monetary value?

Answer: No. The exclusion of compensation in excess of $100,000 annually applies only to cash compensation, not to non-cash benefits, including:
 employer contributions to defined-benefit or defined-contribution retirement plans;
 payment for the provision of employee benefits consisting of group health care coverage, including insurance premiums; and
 payment of state and local taxes assessed on compensation of employees.



so... loan not limited to $100k per employee?

This has been our question too but wrt forgiveness. We have profit sharing due. Will that be included in the forgiveness? We're just going to wait for clarification, which hasn't come out yet on the forgiveness piece. For initial loan, yes, our interpretation was only the salary was limited to $100k.

[surgdoc]

So it sounds like it is clear to everyone that the "payment for the provision of employee benefits including health care and retirement" amount DOES include the employer match of Simple 401K contributions right?
I'm doing it through BofA, if anyone has any specific questions re their app or process & wants to exchange questions.

[surgdoc]

For those who use ADP RUN, look in Reports, theres a new CARES ACT report that does exactly the calcs you need to do...they are brilliant for putting that in there.

[formerly_cn]

So it sounds like it is clear to everyone that the "payment for the provision of employee benefits including health care and retirement" amount DOES include the employer match of Simple 401K contributions right?
I'm doing it through BofA, if anyone has any specific questions re their app or process & wants to exchange questions.

I got BoA as one of the banks. Did you hear back from them ? I finished uploading docs Monday morning. Haven't heard a peep.

The other smaller bank was faster, application sent for approval to SBA and I submitted to that bank like early teusday morning yesterday.

BoA probably focusing on larger business/loans. Terrible. Sucks to work with big banks.

[surgdoc]

I received the BofA email last night so just submitted this morning. We also have a relationship with USBank, its not clear if they are even putting anyone into the SBA yet. I figure BofA will go at decent speed bc they are so big if they don't businesses will start failing & they'll get even more bad press, so they should be motivated. I dont know if youre applying for 2 different types of loans, but know that the SBA will be aware you're applying twice so they might deny the 2nd one.

[jacoavlu]

For those who use ADP RUN, look in Reports, theres a new CARES ACT report that does exactly the calcs you need to do...they are brilliant for putting that in there.

Gusto has also done this. Very simple, one click and it generates a one page report with all the data needed and also a breakdown of how the numbers were calculated, which is a requirement for the bank

[childay]

How does this apply to partnerships / s-corps? Spouse's partnership group applying for their employees payrolls. My understanding, K1 income / distributions cannot be used which makes sense. We are considering applying for spouse's W2 payroll under her single member s-corp. Question 3 on the application makes me wonder

[formerly_cn]

I received the BofA email last night so just submitted this morning. We also have a relationship with USBank, its not clear if they are even putting anyone into the SBA yet. I figure BofA will go at decent speed bc they are so big if they don't businesses will start failing & they'll get even more bad press, so they should be motivated. I dont know if youre applying for 2 different types of loans, but know that the SBA will be aware you're applying twice so they might deny the 2nd one.

Not two different loan types just PPP (I am partners in multiple businesses so have multiple banks I applied to based on corporation banking). Like you I submitted albeit a day earlier than you. I see it the other way- BoA will move slowly since they would have MANY applications pending. Smaller banks are definitely faster and connections there actually are worth something. I hate BoA and big banks but some businesses I am partners in BoA was convenient. Trust me I would have rolled with No(insert state name) if there was a possibility.

Anways, good luck. I hope a second stimulus comes in for Small businesses.

[jacoavlu]

How does this apply to partnerships / s-corps? Spouse's partnership group applying for their employees payrolls. My understanding, K1 income / distributions cannot be used which makes sense. We are considering applying for spouse's W2 payroll under her single member s-corp. Question 3 on the application makes me wonder

Based on spirit of the law I would assume there would be a process whereby the whole entity could apply for the loan which would include employee payroll amounts and some form of compensation amount for the physician owners even if it's a partnership of S Corps.

This is where a competent CPA should be providing guidance to the group.