Red Flags in Negotiations?

[Skinner654]

What are the red flags you would be watching for in negotiations?

I have one place who will not state how many days per week/hours worked in the contract

What is a reasonable non compete in a mid sized city?? Should it be around every location you work? If they won't budge on that, should it be a dealbreaker?

[CordMcNally]

A few things I see as red flags:

1.) If they have a hammer and sickle patch on their shirt.
2.) Any kind of Abercrombie and Fitch clothing with the brand prominently displayed.
3.) Dress shoes and no socks.
4.) An incredibly thick German accent.
5.) Contract is written with a quill pen.
6.) Interview/subsequent meetings conducted at a Fazoli's.


Any contract that doesn't spell out common things such as hour requirement, call requirement, etc. is already a terrible contract. As far as the non-compete goes, what specialty are you?

[Skinner654]

I am in an IM non procedural outpatient subspecialty

[Brains428]

I would have RVU rates stated or a target (ie 50% percentile for market).

Non compete-- maybe see if you can reduce it to 10 mi radius of primary practice location. If you're a subspecialty that doesn't have control of bringing in patients (radiology, pathology, anesthesia, ER, etc), I would shoot to have it eliminated altogether. I supposed if you're IR or pain management, it could be more difficult.

Anything that has money tied to it for time. If you must pay time, make sure its no longer than a year or two.

[nephron]

Unless you are applying for hospitalist/shift work, a contract is never going to spell out how many hours you are going to work because most physicians are not hourly employees. I would want the number of days off and how many weekends I would be expected to cover in writing. One of my old employers made one of her new hires cover the hospital every other week because she didn't like him but didn't want to fire him and pay for unemployment insurance. I would look at the non-compete in the context of how much you think that you want to live in the area. If you have family in the area and are tied to the area, you may want to try to have it eliminated or keep it as short in duration/specialty specific/short in radius as possible. I would look for a practice that was willing to pay for my tail insurance too. You want to have flexibility to leave if the group doesn't turn out they way that you want.

[Cubicle]

I agree the hours per day/week can't really be defined. But that could also be in your favor. There is no minimum for you in that case...

10-15 miles is what I have typically seen for radius.

[Skinner654]

Don’t understand. How can hours / days of the week not be defined? What stops them from putting me in clinic 7 days a week then?

[Tim]

Are you using a contract review service or a healthcare attorney?

[Kamban]

If it is a Private practice then a red flag is a vague line stating that partnership will be considered after 2 years of working there. This is a ruse to use a revolving door of use and discard associates after 2 years.

I once had it given to me by a group in FL. I called them and said that what is this vague statement in the contract. They said it is standard. I countered that unless it definitely states that I will be given partnership after 2 years or be informed that it will not occur at 1.5 years and also not have any non compete clause enforced should that happen, I would not be relocating to be with them. Never heard back from them.

[Skinner654]

I did have an attorney review it, and they said it is common to not have hours or clinic sessions in contract

however, i have had several other offers, and they all include it. still not clear what stops the employer from putting me in clinic 7 days a week then?

[MaxPower]

If it is a Private practice then a red flag is a vague line stating that partnership will be considered after 2 years of working there. This is a ruse to use a revolving door of use and discard associates after 2 years.

I once had it given to me by a group in FL. I called them and said that what is this vague statement in the contract. They said it is standard. I countered that unless it definitely states that I will be given partnership after 2 years or be informed that it will not occur at 1.5 years and also not have any non compete clause enforced should that happen, I would not be relocating to be with them. Never heard back from them.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet there.

I think just about any non-compete would turn me off to a place. If things are so bad with that practice that you want to leave it, but stay in the same area and maybe even at the same hospital, that should tell any self-aware person enough about the practice they are running.

I was approached by a practice in town to join them, and one of the sticking points was their non-compete. I would have been going from a place without a non-compete to a practice with a non-compete, plus a lot of uncertainties about the practice itself. If they’re so sure they have such a great thing going that I’d never want to leave, then why have the non-compete at all? (Narrator: he didn’t join the practice...)

[abds]

A few things I see as red flags:

1.) If they have a hammer and sickle patch on their shirt.
2.) Any kind of Abercrombie and Fitch clothing with the brand prominently displayed.
3.) Dress shoes and no socks.
4.) An incredibly thick German accent.
5.) Contract is written with a quill pen.
6.) Interview/subsequent meetings conducted at a Fazoli's.


Any contract that doesn't spell out common things such as hour requirement, call requirement, etc. is already a terrible contract. As far as the non-compete goes, what specialty are you?

Wait wait wait what’s wrong with dress shoes and no socks?

[CordMcNally]

Wait wait wait what’s wrong with dress shoes and no socks?

Everything. It could also be jealousy since my feet apparently sweat so I can't comfortably pull it off.

[Brains428]

They have tiny socks that make it look sock-less. I have them for my Toms. Don't judge me.

[abds]

I wear those same no-show socks with my dress shoes. I can’t stand the fabric tight around my ankles/calves. Zero concern about how it looks

[Cubicle]

Wait wait wait what’s wrong with dress shoes and no socks?

Everything.

I think its gross to not wear socks in shoes. Or else all your foot sweat ends up in the shoe material. At least the sock is like a filter, you can then wash.

[Lordosis]

I think its gross to not wear socks in shoes. Or else all your foot sweat ends up in the shoe material. At least the sock is like a filter, you can then wash.

You absolutely need to wear socks. Even those low socks are alright. I prefer the taller ones.
However I do not like wearing socks when I do not have any shoes on.