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  • #31








    The 10K estimate would be three weeks in a nice kid-friendly place in a major city in Europe
    Click to expand…


    Well, that changes everything. That’s not just a vacation — that’s borderline slow travel / micro-sabbatical like we’re doing a few times a year now. We’re heading to Hawaii for 23 days in February. I think of it less as a vacation, and more like where we’ll be living in February.

    -PoF

     
    Click to expand…


    This is something I’ve always planned on doing “someday”, but recently that thought has changed to “what am I waiting for?”

     
    Click to expand...


    Right, but one of you is a multi-millionaire and the other has a negative net worth. I mean, don't wait decades for "someday" vacations but taking them your first year out of residency? What are you waiting for? How about getting back to broke before taking vacations that multi-millionaires take?

    I'm pretty curious to see the rest of the plan now. How much are you earning and plan to spend later that you can vacation like this, pay off the loans, AND be FI in your early 40s? How much have you put toward retirement since July 1 and how much lower are your student loans than they were 7 months ago? Are you actually making rapid progress toward your goals?

    I guess if you told me you were making $500K and saved $150K toward retirement in the last 6 months and paid $100K off your student loans I'd feel differently than if you said you were making $180K and put $10K toward retirement and paid $20K off your student loans. Maybe what you're doing is no big deal, dunno.
    Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

    Comment


    • #32











      The 10K estimate would be three weeks in a nice kid-friendly place in a major city in Europe
      Click to expand…


      Well, that changes everything. That’s not just a vacation — that’s borderline slow travel / micro-sabbatical like we’re doing a few times a year now. We’re heading to Hawaii for 23 days in February. I think of it less as a vacation, and more like where we’ll be living in February.

      -PoF

       
      Click to expand…


      This is something I’ve always planned on doing “someday”, but recently that thought has changed to “what am I waiting for?”

       
      Click to expand…


      Right, but one of you is a multi-millionaire and the other has a negative net worth. I mean, don’t wait decades for “someday” vacations but taking them your first year out of residency? What are you waiting for? How about getting back to broke before taking vacations that multi-millionaires take?

      I’m pretty curious to see the rest of the plan now. How much are you earning and plan to spend later that you can vacation like this, pay off the loans, AND be FI in your early 40s? How much have you put toward retirement since July 1 and how much lower are your student loans than they were 7 months ago? Are you actually making rapid progress toward your goals?

      I guess if you told me you were making $500K and saved $150K toward retirement in the last 6 months and paid $100K off your student loans I’d feel differently than if you said you were making $180K and put $10K toward retirement and paid $20K off your student loans. Maybe what you’re doing is no big deal, dunno.
      Click to expand...


      The OP says he is making $300k+ that he expects will go up, spends $80k, and has $150k in retirement.  So he’s saving $120k+ per year.  Getting to $2M in 10 years is easily doable.  Yes POF is a multimillionaire, but he’s also partially retired.  Not everyone wants to start cutting back at 42.  OP is fine taking this vacation.

      Comment


      • #33







        To get







        Dayman, are you the fighter of the Nightman?

        Champion of the Sun ?

        A Master of Karate?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V784AiYtG8
        Click to expand…


        i genuinely feel bad for people who don’t get this.
        Click to expand…


        To get it…


        Click to expand…


        The most Sunny move possible is to just keep talking about this while the rest of the members of the forum discuss the question at hand.

        We’re both men of the law. We spar and jabber but ultimately we respect each other.
        Click to expand...


        Cat in the wall? Now we're talking!

        Comment


        • #34







          The 10K estimate would be three weeks in a nice kid-friendly place in a major city in Europe.
          Click to expand…


          Well, that changes everything. That’s not just a vacation — that’s borderline slow travel / micro-sabbatical like we’re doing a few times a year now. We’re heading to Hawaii for 23 days in February. I think of it less as a vacation, and more like where we’ll be living in February.

          One thing about a trip of that length is that you’ll be spending much, much less back home. You’ll still have the mortgage, but you won’t be using your vehicles, your utility bills will be lower, you won’t spend a dime on food back home, etc… So maybe it’s a $10,000 trip, but it may only cost $5,000 or $6,000 more than just staying put.

          With AirBNB / VRBO, you can save quite a bit by staying outside of the city center in a more residential area and taking public transportation into the city or wherever you want to go. When you only have a week, staying right in the heart of the city makes good sense, but when you’ve got the luxury of time, you can spend a little time on a train.

          Best,

          -PoF

           
          Click to expand...


          I have noticed that when I take a week or ten days, the typical length of my European vacation, I tend to rip through the area as if I have to see everything and will never return, which tends to place me in the middle of the action and on some pretty cool custom (expensive) tours with drivers between points, line-skipping VIP tickets, etc. But, I think it would be considerably less expensive and more relaxing to rent a place or two for a couple weeks and see the sites at my leisure, in between living like and among the natives.

          It would be lovely to sit and have a picnic in Jardin du Luxembourg, maybe toss a frisbee, for example, but my time in Paris was so compressed and busy that there was no opportunity for such a luxury.

          If/when we go again, we will be retired and spend a whole day in the Jardin and not worry that the Eiffel Tower tour (or whatever is in 30 mins...). That is my objective for future vacations.

          Comment


          • #35




            I’m in my first year out of training, making low 300s currently. We have some significant debt – about 275K left in student loans (refinanced on 5 year plan at 3.5%, we are 6 months in), a little under $300K on our mortgage, and an expected partnership buy in a couple of years away. I’ve got about 150K saved in retirement plans so far.

            I strongly dislike debt. There are lots of personal finance articles about how it should be treated as an emergency – here is WCI’s version: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/your-debt-emergency/

            However, our future is promising. Our income is already good and expected to increase more with partnership. We live comfortably on 70-80K year. We drive old cars and will never need a bigger house than the one we already have. I mostly like my job. I made a detailed spreadsheet projecting our finances going forward – assuming 4% real return and no major disruptions to income, the student loans and partnership buy in will be gone within 5 years, and we’ll reach a FI number of $2M in about 10 years (in my early forties).

            So here’s the issue. I would very much like to take my family on an extended overseas vacation, with an estimated price of $10K. I’m between two schools of thought. The first says it’s foolish to spend $10K on a vacation when I have all that debt. The second says it’s foolish to deny myself something that will increase happiness just to save more money, when we’re already on track to be FI in my 40s.

            I imagine I’m not the only one who has been through this sort of debate. Any guidance from the veterans about finding the right balance?
            Click to expand...


            I think you will be absolutely fine if you go on this vacation.  You are paying attention to finances and you have laid out a reasonable forward looking plan that works for you.  As long as your extravagances remain selective, go for it.

            I was financially prudent and planned every step.  But we also bought an expensive home one year into attendinghood, and we went on lots of nice vacations.  All along the way the extravagances were selective.  We carefully planned how much to spend on pretty much everything.  After three decades I can say with confidence that our finances have worked out quite nicely.

            Go ahead and enjoy this special trip, as long as it doesn't knock you off the financial track that you have carefully laid out for yourself.

            Comment


            • #36











              The 10K estimate would be three weeks in a nice kid-friendly place in a major city in Europe
              Click to expand…


              Well, that changes everything. That’s not just a vacation — that’s borderline slow travel / micro-sabbatical like we’re doing a few times a year now. We’re heading to Hawaii for 23 days in February. I think of it less as a vacation, and more like where we’ll be living in February.

              -PoF

               
              Click to expand…


              This is something I’ve always planned on doing “someday”, but recently that thought has changed to “what am I waiting for?”

               
              Click to expand…


              Right, but one of you is a multi-millionaire and the other has a negative net worth. I mean, don’t wait decades for “someday” vacations but taking them your first year out of residency? What are you waiting for? How about getting back to broke before taking vacations that multi-millionaires take?

              I’m pretty curious to see the rest of the plan now. How much are you earning and plan to spend later that you can vacation like this, pay off the loans, AND be FI in your early 40s? How much have you put toward retirement since July 1 and how much lower are your student loans than they were 7 months ago? Are you actually making rapid progress toward your goals?

              I guess if you told me you were making $500K and saved $150K toward retirement in the last 6 months and paid $100K off your student loans I’d feel differently than if you said you were making $180K and put $10K toward retirement and paid $20K off your student loans. Maybe what you’re doing is no big deal, dunno.
              Click to expand...


              Since July 1 - about $40K towards student loans, $50K towards retirement (counting match), and $10K saved for partner buy in. The math going forward is not complicated, make 400+ for several years while spending 70-80k. Rate of return is assumed at 4% real. I'm not sure what about it is hard to believe. Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I think my assumptions are pretty reasonable.

              Also, the proposed trip is far enough in the future that we'll have a positive net worth by then (barring a major market downturn). But that distinction is not particularly relevant to me. It would be relevant if I thought my projected future income was highly risky and not to be relied upon. While it certainly could go down from its current level, I can't imagine income ever becoming a problem for an MD who's happy at my current level of spending.

              Comment


              • #37














                The 10K estimate would be three weeks in a nice kid-friendly place in a major city in Europe
                Click to expand…


                Well, that changes everything. That’s not just a vacation — that’s borderline slow travel / micro-sabbatical like we’re doing a few times a year now. We’re heading to Hawaii for 23 days in February. I think of it less as a vacation, and more like where we’ll be living in February.

                -PoF

                 
                Click to expand…


                This is something I’ve always planned on doing “someday”, but recently that thought has changed to “what am I waiting for?”

                 
                Click to expand…


                Right, but one of you is a multi-millionaire and the other has a negative net worth. I mean, don’t wait decades for “someday” vacations but taking them your first year out of residency? What are you waiting for? How about getting back to broke before taking vacations that multi-millionaires take?

                I’m pretty curious to see the rest of the plan now. How much are you earning and plan to spend later that you can vacation like this, pay off the loans, AND be FI in your early 40s? How much have you put toward retirement since July 1 and how much lower are your student loans than they were 7 months ago? Are you actually making rapid progress toward your goals?

                I guess if you told me you were making $500K and saved $150K toward retirement in the last 6 months and paid $100K off your student loans I’d feel differently than if you said you were making $180K and put $10K toward retirement and paid $20K off your student loans. Maybe what you’re doing is no big deal, dunno.
                Click to expand…


                Since July 1 – about $40K towards student loans, $50K towards retirement (counting match), and $10K saved for partner buy in. The math going forward is not complicated, make 400+ for several years while spending 70-80k. Rate of return is assumed at 4% real. I’m not sure what about it is hard to believe. Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I think my assumptions are pretty reasonable.

                Also, the proposed trip is far enough in the future that we’ll have a positive net worth by then (barring a major market downturn). But that distinction is not particularly relevant to me. It would be relevant if I thought my projected future income was highly risky and not to be relied upon. While it certainly could go down from its current level, I can’t imagine income ever becoming a problem for an MD who’s happy at my current level of spending.
                Click to expand...


                So you've made $200K and put $100K toward building wealth. Sounds like you're doing well. Maybe call the trip a reward for getting back to broke. But bear in mind if the plan calls for you to spend $70-80K a year and you're spending $90K in year one due to this $10K trip, the plan might need a little tweaking! It's probably still fine spending $100K a year, just delays FI a bit.
                Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

                Comment


                • #38














                  The 10K estimate would be three weeks in a nice kid-friendly place in a major city in Europe
                  Click to expand…


                  Well, that changes everything. That’s not just a vacation — that’s borderline slow travel / micro-sabbatical like we’re doing a few times a year now. We’re heading to Hawaii for 23 days in February. I think of it less as a vacation, and more like where we’ll be living in February.

                  -PoF

                   
                  Click to expand…


                  This is something I’ve always planned on doing “someday”, but recently that thought has changed to “what am I waiting for?”

                   
                  Click to expand…


                  Right, but one of you is a multi-millionaire and the other has a negative net worth. I mean, don’t wait decades for “someday” vacations but taking them your first year out of residency? What are you waiting for? How about getting back to broke before taking vacations that multi-millionaires take?

                  I’m pretty curious to see the rest of the plan now. How much are you earning and plan to spend later that you can vacation like this, pay off the loans, AND be FI in your early 40s? How much have you put toward retirement since July 1 and how much lower are your student loans than they were 7 months ago? Are you actually making rapid progress toward your goals?

                  I guess if you told me you were making $500K and saved $150K toward retirement in the last 6 months and paid $100K off your student loans I’d feel differently than if you said you were making $180K and put $10K toward retirement and paid $20K off your student loans. Maybe what you’re doing is no big deal, dunno.
                  Click to expand…


                  Since July 1 – about $40K towards student loans, $50K towards retirement (counting match), and $10K saved for partner buy in. The math going forward is not complicated, make 400+ for several years while spending 70-80k. Rate of return is assumed at 4% real. I’m not sure what about it is hard to believe. Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I think my assumptions are pretty reasonable.

                  Also, the proposed trip is far enough in the future that we’ll have a positive net worth by then (barring a major market downturn). But that distinction is not particularly relevant to me. It would be relevant if I thought my projected future income was highly risky and not to be relied upon. While it certainly could go down from its current level, I can’t imagine income ever becoming a problem for an MD who’s happy at my current level of spending.
                  Click to expand...


                  That's all fairly reasonable, but consider the context of the response you received and from whom.  It's not going to make sense for someone who writes a chef-d'oeuvre called "Your Debt is Your Emergency" with very high visibility begin to condone non-essential spending while debt is present.  The response would be "hey, look, WCI thinks expensive vacations while in debt are OK," and up come the straw men and inappropriate extrapolations.

                  I'd take up for both of you.  Financially, it's the wrong thing, but it might be holistically right for your life in a way.  The "big shovel" metaphor also applies here.  The fact that big spending rarely occurs in isolation also comes into play. I'm sure you'll have a great time, and the vacation will do you much good in your life, and chances are your spending rate will remain low and saving rate will remain high.  You just have to be cognizant of the habit-forming nature of spending and overcome it...which, based on what you've said, is rather feasible.  So enjoy yourself and keep up the good work.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    In response to the comments on how expensive it is to travel in Europe...buy a Rick Steves book and follow his recommendations religiously and Europe is a relatively cheap trip. $125/day/person not including flights is what he preaches. We’ve tested it a couple of times now and will be again this summer. It works. Try to blend in with the locals amd travel cheap. It makes for a great trip.

                    Comment


                    • #40





                      The 10K estimate would be three weeks in a nice kid-friendly place in a major city in Europe
                      Click to expand…


                      Well, that changes everything. That’s not just a vacation — that’s borderline slow travel / micro-sabbatical like we’re doing a few times a year now. We’re heading to Hawaii for 23 days in February. I think of it less as a vacation, and more like where we’ll be living in February.

                      One thing about a trip of that length is that you’ll be spending much, much less back home. You’ll still have the mortgage, but you won’t be using your vehicles, your utility bills will be lower, you won’t spend a dime on food back home, etc… So maybe it’s a $10,000 trip, but it may only cost $5,000 or $6,000 more than just staying put.

                      With AirBNB / VRBO, you can save quite a bit by staying outside of the city center in a more residential area and taking public transportation into the city or wherever you want to go. When you only have a week, staying right in the heart of the city makes good sense, but when you’ve got the luxury of time, you can spend a little time on a train.

                      Best,

                      -PoF

                       
                      Click to expand...


                      Agreed.  We try to travel this way as well.  Airbnb can really help, but you have to do your research and make sure you get a good host.  So does being willing to stay away from the tourist hot spots.

                      But, yeah taking longer trips, if possible, can make for a cheaper and more leisurely experience.  Not everyone can pull it off though due to work constraints.  I'm lucky because as a hospitalist a 3 week trip is no problem at all.  I don't even need permission to do it. Just have to be willing to work a lot before and after the trip.  My wife has generous PTO benefits at her job, so she's usually able to pull it off too, but this year she's being conservative because she's saving up for maternity leave.  We're going to Maui in March and Germany in June.  Both are shorter trips (12-14 days), but very cheap due to credit card points, obsessively searching for good deals on lodging, and sharing costs with family members (the Germany trip is a family trip).  Also we don't do a lot of the guided tourist stuff and we try to not eat out too often.

                      What island are you going to POF?  23 days is going to be NICE!

                      Comment


                      • #41


                        What island are you going to POF?  23 days is going to be NICE!
                        Click to expand...


                        4 days on Kauai, 12 on the Big Island, and a week in Oahu. Can't wait.

                        Incredibly, I have plans to meet up with bloggers / podcasters on every island (most of whom are traveling, and one or two who call Oahu home). I don't think I can write off the trip as a business expense, but perhaps a few meals, at least.

                        Cheers!

                        -PoF

                        Comment


                        • #42





                          What island are you going to POF?  23 days is going to be NICE! 
                          Click to expand…


                          4 days on Kauai, 12 on the Big Island, and a week in Oahu. Can’t wait.

                          Incredibly, I have plans to meet up with bloggers / podcasters on every island (most of whom are traveling, and one or two who call Oahu home). I don’t think I can write off the trip as a business expense, but perhaps a few meals, at least.

                          Cheers!

                          -PoF
                          Click to expand...


                          Very nice!  And after reading your story about your recent legal victory, you deserve a nice long break!!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Promoting the practice.

                            Every corporation is entitled to an annual board meeting as well.

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