Struggles of a new attending

[DrMoneyTails]

jfoxcpacfp wrote:

Just a comment that the community here is awesome. Obviously, I can’t address what you’re going through from a personal perspective, but can imagine how much better it is to be able to share with others who have been in your shoes. The common thread that seems to run through the responses is to spend purposefully. Have a plan, such the excel spreadsheet mentioned above, to track current spending and name where those future dollars will go. Doing so will give you perspective beyond what you’re spending and saving at the moment and will help to alleviate that “out of control” feeling. Also important, I think, is to make it a joint project with your spouse, monthly budget reviews, etc.

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I 100% agree; I am always amazed by this community. It makes so much easier going through life knowing I can count on all of you to bounce back ideas and get some advice!

Gamma Knives wrote:

Do try to max out the HSA if at all possible as that is a great tax break.

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I am looking forward to my next paycheck; I am pretty sure I will be able to max the HSA. The car (I have one 10k loan at 3.9%) will have to wait but maybe in December I can put a dent in it. I'll be happy if I can begin 2018 with only one car payment (the 2.9%). 

Gamma Knives wrote:

As someone who moved from a warm climate to a cold one, don’t overdo the winter clothing thing. You are probably inside most of the time so get a few basics (from target not arcteryx); don’t spend a ton on fancy overcoats or boots that are made for an outdoors man. Buy the clothing as you need it; the stores won’t run out. If you end up doing a lot of outdoor winter activities and need to upgrade then you will know what you need.

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Great advice about the winter clothes! We have been doing just that. We had the bare minimum moving up here (most things were gift from family members), and we have been purchasing some items as we notice we need them - for example, one of our favorite and mostly free hobbies has been to go hiking. We realized we were gonna lose our toes if we continued to hike in regular sneakers.. 

[Gamma Knives]

I was you a year ago (except I didn't know about this site). I would echo much of what has been said here. When you move to a new area there will be some truly one time expenses to deal with. On the other hand, I found myself heading towards constant one time expenses (I still struggle with this).

Do try to max out the HSA if at all possible as that is a great tax break. I think (please double check me) that you can contribute for 2017 until the filing deadline in April 2018. Definitely maximize all tax advantaged retirement accounts before paying off the car loan at 2.9%. 

As someone who moved from a warm climate to a cold one, don't overdo the winter clothing thing. You are probably inside most of the time so get a few basics (from target not arcteryx); don't spend a ton on fancy overcoats or boots that are made for an outdoors man. Buy the clothing as you need it; the stores won't run out. If you end up doing a lot of outdoor winter activities and need to upgrade then you will know what you need.

[RogueDadMD]

MPMD wrote:

jhwkr542 wrote:

Sounds like a bunch of one-time things.  I spend much more time fixated on the recurring payments, which are usually the big things.  Mortgage/rent, insurance, cell phone, internet, car payments (haha, nope!), private school tuition (haha, nope again!).  Example:  my wife had a $3k ER bill the other week.  I didn’t like it, but a one-time $3k won’t hurt.  I will agree with you:  with moving, there’s always lots of little things.  You’ll settle in.  There’ll always be lots of stuff like that that pops up from month-to-month for us, which you don’t budget for.  That’s why if you get the big stuff right (i.e. aren’t house-poor), all this other stuff will just be noise and you won’t worry about it.

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One thing I will tell you struggled with is this concept of “one time expenses.” When you are done living like a resident these might go up and up to where you can no longer justify them as being outside of your budget.

Major car repair, small house projects that must be done, Xmas, trip of a lifetime, various other reasons to tap the e-fund.

It takes a heckuva lot of discipline not to let a “one time expense” hit you every month especially the farther you get from training.

One of the ways to mitigate this which it sounds like the OP is doing is to pay yourself first. If you are maxing out 401k/BDIRA/other accounts and at 20% before you get your paycheck deposit then the spending is less damaging.

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MPMD's take I think is spot on and has been echoed before.  There are new "one-time" expenses every month.  The ER bill this month is the new set of couches next month is the vacation the following month.

 

I'm a believer in setting your savings goals and living off the rest, and if the variable expenses are different names but same totals month to month then I don't really care.  Someone wrote a blog post (WSP?) about paying yourself last (instead of paying yourself first, i.e. save then spend).  I think his take was to define was budget you need for the lifestyle you want, save everything else, then as income increases your spending is static so your savings keep going up and up.

I think that works great if you can define a budget at the beginning that gives you a good savings rate while keeping you satisfied, but if you can't do that, then I think defining the savings goals first is required.

Considering how fresh out of training you are, I think you are doing great.  

However I would see if you can find a way to max out the HSA, if not in 2017 then definitely in 2018.  It should not be very much compared to your overall salary, and the growth of that is going to be helpful.  Also since that means you are on a HDHP and already worried about short-term spending being higher than expected, forcing yourself to save in case of a medical issue so you have the cash to pay bills from the HSA (instead of using it like a Stealth IRA) will also provide some stress relief just by having that cash on hand in case you need it.  

[jfoxcpacfp]

Just a comment that the community here is awesome. Obviously, I can't address what you're going through from a personal perspective, but can imagine how much better it is to be able to share with others who have been in your shoes. The common thread that seems to run through the responses is to spend purposefully. Have a plan, such the excel spreadsheet mentioned above, to track current spending and name where those future dollars will go. Doing so will give you perspective beyond what you're spending and saving at the moment and will help to alleviate that "out of control" feeling. Also important, I think, is to make it a joint project with your spouse, monthly budget reviews, etc.

[Anesthesia84]

I think you're doing great! When I finished residency a few years ago, we stayed on for my husband's fellowship and none of our bills really changed since we didn't move, didn't buy new cars etc.... He finished last June and we moved and I stupidly thought that since our expenses stayed in check after I finished it would be the same! Turns out moving and having a new house means tons of expenses and our goals of paying off certain things will be pushed back a bit (but we are still going to be net worthless very shortly which was our big goal this year!!!)

Anyway, I know how you feel and we have just sat down each payday to make sure we pay ourselves first (retirement, HSA, student loans, mortgage), see how much is leftover and then decide what our next priority is. This next paycheck gets to go to some new furniture for the house - 5 months after we moved in, ha! (And we are shopping at the local discount place.... still, it's nicer than the stuff we have from med school I'm sure)

[MPMD]

jhwkr542 wrote:

Sounds like a bunch of one-time things.  I spend much more time fixated on the recurring payments, which are usually the big things.  Mortgage/rent, insurance, cell phone, internet, car payments (haha, nope!), private school tuition (haha, nope again!).  Example:  my wife had a $3k ER bill the other week.  I didn’t like it, but a one-time $3k won’t hurt.  I will agree with you:  with moving, there’s always lots of little things.  You’ll settle in.  There’ll always be lots of stuff like that that pops up from month-to-month for us, which you don’t budget for.  That’s why if you get the big stuff right (i.e. aren’t house-poor), all this other stuff will just be noise and you won’t worry about it.

Click to expand...

One thing I will tell you struggled with is this concept of "one time expenses." When you are done living like a resident these might go up and up to where you can no longer justify them as being outside of your budget.

Major car repair, small house projects that must be done, Xmas, trip of a lifetime, various other reasons to tap the e-fund.

It takes a heckuva lot of discipline not to let a "one time expense" hit you every month especially the farther you get from training.

One of the ways to mitigate this which it sounds like the OP is doing is to pay yourself first. If you are maxing out 401k/BDIRA/other accounts and at 20% before you get your paycheck deposit then the spending is less damaging.

[DrMoneyTails]

thank you all for the replies. it truly helped a lot!

i feel less paranoid than i did before;worrying we are doing something wrong.

stay the course!!

[Doc Spouse]

We just went through this ourselves.  Moves are horrible for those "unexpected but necessary" expenses.  As Craigy said, often times they're neither unexpected or necessary.  What helps us deal with the move is to have a budget walking into the month.  We pay ourselves first (savings, investing, etc) and then have a budget for the "unexpected yet necessary".

For example, we had a budget of $2,000 for "new house stuff" for the first 2 months, and then we dropped it down to $1,000 for the last two months.  Everything we all of a sudden "needed" like winter tires, etc got put against that budget.  If we didn't have any money left, that "need" got pushed back to the following month.  It forced us to prioritize and many of those expenses lost their urgency.  The dining room table and area rug for the bedroom still haven't been purchased, as some electrical panel work and the aforementioned tires took precedence.  We went to a local Goodwill (which was pretty darn nice) for $20 winter coats instead of dropping a few hundred on new stuff.  We'll get the new stuff next year, maybe.  It's all about those priorities.

There will be things you just can't put off and yet don't have the budget for, but I usually use emergency fund for those.  It hurts to pull money out of that fund; so I'll exhaust all other options before touching that.  Last week, we realized our chimney is blocked and there's carbon monoxide being back-vented into the basement when our hot-water heater and furnace are both running at the same time.  Obviously that's not something we could put off.  It would have blown our budget to get the chimney ripped up and cleaned; so instead, I learned how to drill basement vents this weekend.  I fixed the issue for about $200 in supplies which was still in budget and the emergency fund was spared.

As others have said, you sound like you're well on your way.  Don't stress out that it's taking you a little longer than you hoped.  Stay the course!

[hightower]

You're doing quite well compared to what I did post residency.  We already owned a condo at that time with a mortgage.  I bought myself a motorcycle.  I bought myself a new reef aquarium (a very expensive hobby btw).  We went on several vacations.  We had 2 car payments.  250k of student loans.  And we decided to buy an old house and fix it up (while we still lived in the condo).  I was spending money like I was Jay Z or something.  It was stupid.  This was in 2011.  The stock market was still fairly cheap.  If I had poured all that money in to student loans and my investment accounts, I'd be sitting pretty right now.  Although, we did get our house for super cheap and it's now worth a lot more with a ton of equity, so I guess it worked out okay.  But, I'd rather have no student loans.

Live and learn right?  I'm just glad I got it out of my system when I was young.  I'm 35 now and I've been on the right track for about a year now.

[The White Coat Investor]

It's a marathon, not a sprint. But imagine how bad your spending would be if you weren't even trying to live like a resident. There are very few docs who don't increase their spending at all coming out of training, but if you can hold the increase to something like 50% instead of 400%, that will make all the difference.

Moving is expensive. You're done with your student loans YEARS before most docs, even those living like a resident. I'd say you're doing pretty good. Just hang in there, grow into your income as slowly as you can and you'll be surprised just how awesome your financial position is in 5-10 years.

I'm 11 years out of residency and have serious thoughts about retirement--complete and total retirement--every now and then. I was doing some rebalancing last week so I actually added up our assets and we've got enough for a PoF-style retirement right now. Would you like that kind of freedom a decade from now? I bet you would. Now, consider that you're FOUR YEARS AHEAD OF WHERE I WAS. This stuff works, just stick with the plan for a few years.

[Hatton]

You are way ahead of me at that time also.  I remember being so excited to buy my first clothes dryer.  A lot of setting up the household are one time expenses.  Enjoy yourself

[Dr. Mom]

Kudos.  You are paying attention financially.  You are so far ahead of where we were at your stage! We didn't have any plan back then other than saving for retirement which we weren't even maxing out.  Over the years we learned and improved as you will too.  Don't stress yourself over this period.  Enjoy it.  Good luck with the new job.  Glad it is working out well for you.

[jhwkr542]

Sounds like a bunch of one-time things.  I spend much more time fixated on the recurring payments, which are usually the big things.  Mortgage/rent, insurance, cell phone, internet, car payments (haha, nope!), private school tuition (haha, nope again!).  Example:  my wife had a $3k ER bill the other week.  I didn't like it, but a one-time $3k won't hurt.  I will agree with you:  with moving, there's always lots of little things.  You'll settle in.  There'll always be lots of stuff like that that pops up from month-to-month for us, which you don't budget for.  That's why if you get the big stuff right (i.e. aren't house-poor), all this other stuff will just be noise and you won't worry about it.

[q-school]

I differ slightly from above responses.  i think you are doing great!  imo, you are being impatient only in the sense that you have set extremely high goals.  just settle in for the long haul.  moving is a stressful time.  new job is a stressful time.

this is a good time to sit down and plan for next year.  if you make savings/debt reduction a priority, it will happen.  you have plenty of time to let a good plan work for you.   you will be fine whether things are paid off in 2018 or 2017.

 

[adventure]

DrMoneyTails wrote:

I keep thinking that we are failing the “living like a resident” mantra.

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We still fail - but I still try, and get better each month.