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What percentage of all docs, all comers reach $10 mm by 50

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  • #16
    A buddy who’s a high earner. Lives on 25%. Private equity helped him get over 10 mil at age 40.

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    • #17
      I am always skeptical of medscape surveys.

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      • #18
        Are we talking NW, combined with a partners? Or just the physician on their own hitting 10M invested? Small number either way. How many even want to hit that number at that age? It's definitely not a goal for me. . .

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        • #19
          Originally posted by VentAlarm View Post
          I would guess almost none. If I can out at 32 with a NW of 0 it would take 160k a year at 12% to get there. Short of being an owner/entrepreneur or making 600+, seems unlikely. Even the hardcore FI folks would likely punch out or spend more before hitting that NW.
          I second this. As a traditional doc it would take a lot of sacrifice to get to 10mm at 50. Extra calls, living frugally. Might be the goal for some, but at what cost?

          We were not on track for 10mm at 50yo, but even so, after some soul searching we’ve decided loosening up the purse strings would bring more joy, and would not compromise our joy in retirement.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Notsobad View Post
            I think it is higher it higher than these guesses. There was a poster on bogleheads I think who was probably a spine surgeon and lived on less than 100k a year. I know of several “power” couples — GI and radiology, vascular and anesthesia, specialist gone to industry plus MBA spouse, rad onc and GI, interventional cardiology and Derm, etc. The ones I know do not appear to be too spendy (I could be naive) and many of them could have accumulated this much, if not by 50, then close to it.
            twice as likely with two-doc household? i wonder if on average the extra income goes towards building wealth or just more extravagance all around

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            • #21
              For anyone near or close to it (>$7), mind sharing the story?

              54 , $7+

              One wife , 4 kids,

              Worked for a hospital for a year and then for myself for 20+ years doing outpt IM. I am a single earner in the family. I had 70k in loans when I started. Paid off in a few years. I always saved a lot , I would maximize my retirement plan on Jan 1 , by funding with a bonus from the year before. We paid off our house in about 10 years, which at the time was less than 2x salary.

              My biggest asset was my practice , which I felt I did fairly well at the time.

              I typically paid myself a lot less than I earned , then quarterly I would do a distribution straight to Vanguard, avoiding having extra money lying around in a bank account. I always thought of that account as a non touchable account.

              I am a conservative investor, a Vanguard guy, for the most part except a few stock purchase which I gambled on with less than 5% of my portfolio.

              There is no fancy story, just a long course of living below means and dollar cost averaging.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Notsobad View Post
                I think it is higher it higher than these guesses. There was a poster on bogleheads I think who was probably a spine surgeon and lived on less than 100k a year. I know of several “power” couples — GI and radiology, vascular and anesthesia, specialist gone to industry plus MBA spouse, rad onc and GI, interventional cardiology and Derm, etc. The ones I know do not appear to be too spendy (I could be naive) and many of them could have accumulated this much, if not by 50, then close to it.
                I agree. Most of us here function as worker bees. But owner/operators have much higher potential. Own your surgery, endoscopy, imaging, fertility center and collect the facility fees. Overbuild your office building and rent out the rest of the building. It’s not like I know a bunch of these people, but there’s enough out there that have this potential. Of course these owner operators aren’t going to tell me over the ether screen what their net worth is but these are the type of opportunities that can make it possible.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Hatton View Post
                  I am always skeptical of medscape surveys.
                  https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2...h-debt-6013910
                  Yes, a grain (or cup) of salt is needed.

                  One factor not considered is NW the old fashioned way, inherited wealth.
                  For example, a second year med student has a NW around $20m. Not sure if that includes changes Mom was making as part of the divorce.
                  Jennifer Gates
                  Pricill Chan is 36.
                  Marrying up is not unheard of.
                  Probably closer to zeroto .5% if it was from earnings. Is a couple $20m? There are some very wealthy people that become physicians.
                  Medicine is a career with a higher floor and a lower ceiling than some others. Rare for $50m/50 years. Not from medicine.





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                  • #24
                    I assume by “docs” you mean physicians. I have a few physician friends who definitely hit that number and blew past it before age 50. They own surgery centers, real estate etc along with their private group practice ownership. It’s been impressive to see what they do. One derm and the other two are sub specialty surgeons.

                    I know several dentists who have almost certainly hit that number by 50 as well. I only know actual numbers from a couple of them but I know enough from the others that they must be in the same boat.

                    I would say all of these people I’m thinking of really enjoy what they do and while some work less than full time because that’s how they set up their schedule, none of them plan to tap out early and retire early, at least for now.

                    The common thread is all are good at the business side and enjoy that aspect. None of them are overworked in terms of practicing their particular specialty, but they do tend to spend more time figuring out how to improve their business.

                    I enjoy what I do but I have too many other interests to focus enough energy on my practice to hit those numbers. To each his/her own.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by wideopenspaces View Post
                      Are we talking NW, combined with a partners? Or just the physician on their own hitting 10M invested? Small number either way. How many even want to hit that number at that age? It's definitely not a goal for me. . .
                      Total net worth as a couple. No home equity included in calculation

                      I won’t reach it, but I’ll try. The reason being: I want to be able to walk away from medicine if I want and it changes the psychology of why I work. Currently I've been ok without burnout as long as I can take my family on trips (4-6x a year, not extravagant). I work minimal nights and evenings (<7 a year). I pick up work during the school year (days) and free summers up for my little one. My wife (also physician) works 0.5 FTE. We’re internal medicine so not big shovel sub-speciality ($600-650K/year gross over the past 7 years), just both happened to be young when we started. Had >$400K student loans together, paid.

                      I’ve calculated that with a 7% return and $200K/yr investment across all pre/post tax buckets I can maybe reach $8 mm. Nothing crazy or exciting (crypto, private equity, real estate), just boring old brokerage account. We drive decent cars ($50-60K each, one paid, one with 1% loan), above avg house ($1 mm). I don't want to clip coupons or keeping the house 50 degrees, anything ultra frugal.

                      I think my biggest advantage is only having to pay for 1 kid and finishing at 29 years old. Wife and I are both immigrant kids, I grew up below the poverty line.
                      Last edited by IlliniGopher; 02-06-2022, 06:35 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Random1 View Post
                        For anyone near or close to it (>$7), mind sharing the story?

                        54 , $7+

                        One wife , 4 kids,

                        Worked for a hospital for a year and then for myself for 20+ years doing outpt IM. I am a single earner in the family. I had 70k in loans when I started. Paid off in a few years. I always saved a lot , I would maximize my retirement plan on Jan 1 , by funding with a bonus from the year before. We paid off our house in about 10 years, which at the time was less than 2x salary.

                        My biggest asset was my practice , which I felt I did fairly well at the time.

                        I typically paid myself a lot less than I earned , then quarterly I would do a distribution straight to Vanguard, avoiding having extra money lying around in a bank account. I always thought of that account as a non touchable account.

                        I am a conservative investor, a Vanguard guy, for the most part except a few stock purchase which I gambled on with less than 5% of my portfolio.

                        There is no fancy story, just a long course of living below means and dollar cost averaging.
                        I love this. Thanks for sharing. I just wonder if I can reach $10 by doing boring investing — kinda like the janitor that retires a millionaire but on a larger scale.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Notsobad View Post
                          I think it is higher it higher than these guesses.

                          Yeah, I agree. The 8 figure club is kind of like Fight Club. And we all know the first rule of Fight Club.

                          And if you don't, there's a movie you definitely must see.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by IlliniGopher View Post

                            I love this. Thanks for sharing. I just wonder if I can reach $10 by doing boring investing — kinda like the janitor that retires a millionaire but on a larger scale.
                            You can but you'll either need significant contributions or significant growth.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by IlliniGopher View Post

                              Total net worth as a couple. No home equity included in calculation

                              I won’t reach it, but I’ll try. The reason being: I want to be able to walk away from medicine if I want and it changes the psychology of why I work. Currently I've been ok without burnout as long as I can take my family on trips (4-6x a year, not extravagant). I work minimal nights and evenings (<7 a year). I pick up work during the school year (days) and free summers up for my little one. My wife (also physician) works 0.5 FTE. We’re internal medicine so not big shovel sub-speciality ($600-650K/year gross over the past 7 years), just both happened to be young when we started. Had >$400K student loans together, paid.

                              I’ve calculated that with a 7% return and $200K/yr investment across all pre/post tax buckets I can maybe reach $8 mm. Nothing crazy or exciting (crypto, private equity, real estate), just boring old brokerage account. We drive decent cars ($50-60K each, one paid, one with 1% loan), above avg house ($1 mm). I don't want to clip coupons or keeping the house 50 degrees, anything ultra frugal.

                              I think my biggest advantage is only having to pay for 1 kid and finishing at 29 years old. Wife and I are both immigrant kids, I grew up below the poverty line.
                              Uhhhh….I feel like a couple making 650k with one working 0.5 FTE and the other working what sounds like <1FTE is a pretty big shovel….

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by AR View Post


                                Yeah, I agree. The 8 figure club is kind of like Fight Club. And we all know the first rule of Fight Club.

                                And if you don't, there's a movie you definitely must see.
                                Never let another man kiss your hand after pouring an unknown powdery substance on it?

                                Comment

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