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New attending, IM RICH!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tim View Post
    “Well it's 1090 income so after malpractice, health insurance and such it was actually 463k”
    Excuse me, it’s 1099.
    Right, whoops.

    ”Also I've got 6 figures of student debt I'll have to pay off ”
    Excuse me, did you expect otherwise?
    No not at all. And I've been really grateful for the covid relief hold on federal loans

    “On the bright side we have a great life we did get to spend about 3k a month on stuff we enjoy (groceries, restaurants, vacay, hobbies, home decor and shopping) and have saved about 100k toward a home downpayment.”
    Excuse me, $136k plus retirement savings. Very impressive. That’s more than your brother or most of your non physician friends make.
    Thanks, it doesn't at all FEEL impressive, but I think I need a perspective shift already. Its funny you don't know my non-physician friends but they've all done very well and have been making much much more than that for a decade now. But we all knew not to go into medicine for the money right?!


    Excuse me...

    Excuse me...

    This sounds like a broken record, but you skipped several other recurring topics. Notice the trend?

    Excuse me?
    So I actually don't understand the rest of your post, sorry! I would be interested in hearing your explain the trend you are talking about.

    I really don't want to sound like I'm complaining and I'm sorry if that how it came across. But I thought my experience as a new attending was an example of a lot of the principles on this site (income vs wealth, spending habits, savings rate, don't buy a house too soon, doctor lifestyle expectations) And experiencing them for myself has been totally different than reading about it, so I wanted to share.

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    • #17
      You are in an amazing position. You made tremendous progress. This year 100% of your wealth improvement came from personal capital.
      The financial capital increases and in 5 years will be substantial and is ever increasing. You just need to model it. You are on the right path. It takes time for the financial capital results to bloom. You planted the seeds.

      You are not really different for than any other new attending. I hear these same conversations from my daughter frequently. Exactly the same issues. She was house hunting too. Same price points and reactions. Her co fellows, co residents the same frustration.s.

      Your sharing is not really complaining, it is likely the reality for the vast majority..

      As far as I know, it is highly unusual for high school, college and even med school friends to be pulling in $500k for the past 10 years. Yes, your resident and fellowship friends are on your same path. Oh law, tech and banking are not the norm. Some of them blowup too. Just numbers. You are set up for success. Much more than most. Strong work. It will payoff.
      Last edited by Tim; 01-24-2022, 07:44 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ihavenonickname View Post

        If you told most people (maybe not the readers of this blog) that they're gonna make nearly half an million they would think that means incredible wealth, but it just doesn't!
        I think the salient number here is 3k per month spending, after rent, for 2 people and a baby. IMO that is depriving yourself when you make 500k. I spend close to 3k on just discretionary spending for myself, after paying 1k rent, in my last year of residency making 120k with moonlighting. I eat out all the time, travel all the time, go to concerts, etc. I'm actually living richer than you while making 1/4 of your income. Am I going to suffer some day because of that? I highly doubt it.

        I know this forum really prioritizes saving for retirement, but do you really need to save 100k per year to meet your retirement goals? I don't think we would tell someone making 200k a year that they have to save 100k per year or be unable to retire.

        Put another way, isn't it worth it to be able to spend 5k per month in the prime of your life, for the potential drawback of having to delay retirement for a couple years, or go part time instead of retiring early, or spend a little less in retirement?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by FreshPaint View Post

          I think the salient number here is 3k per month spending, after rent, for 2 people and a baby. IMO that is depriving yourself when you make 500k. I spend close to 3k on just discretionary spending for myself, after paying 1k rent, in my last year of residency making 120k with moonlighting. I eat out all the time, travel all the time, go to concerts, etc. I'm actually living richer than you while making 1/4 of your income. Am I going to suffer some day because of that? I highly doubt it.

          I know this forum really prioritizes saving for retirement, but do you really need to save 100k per year to meet your retirement goals? I don't think we would tell someone making 200k a year that they have to save 100k per year or be unable to retire.

          Put another way, isn't it worth it to be able to spend 5k per month in the prime of your life, for the potential drawback of having to delay retirement for a couple years, or go part time instead of retiring early, or spend a little less in retirement?
          I think you might be overestimating how much fun money can buy when you have a baby at home 😆 You're single, of course you are able to have fun and do all those things. You're in a totally different stage of life. Spending another couple k/month won't make op childless with no responsibilities.

          To OPs question about the house- I'd keep living in your rental a couple more years with the little one. It gives you time to save more to get the place you want, in a good school district, at a price you can afford.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by FreshPaint View Post

            I think the salient number here is 3k per month spending, after rent, for 2 people and a baby. IMO that is depriving yourself when you make 500k. I spend close to 3k on just discretionary spending for myself, after paying 1k rent, in my last year of residency making 120k with moonlighting. I eat out all the time, travel all the time, go to concerts, etc. I'm actually living richer than you while making 1/4 of your income. Am I going to suffer some day because of that? I highly doubt it.

            I know this forum really prioritizes saving for retirement, but do you really need to save 100k per year to meet your retirement goals? I don't think we would tell someone making 200k a year that they have to save 100k per year or be unable to retire.

            Put another way, isn't it worth it to be able to spend 5k per month in the prime of your life, for the potential drawback of having to delay retirement for a couple years, or go part time instead of retiring early, or spend a little less in retirement?
            Percentages matter and your example is still in residency.
            Comp -taxes- retirement =spending
            In residency the retirement savings is get the match and Roth if you can (simply for the tax free growth). The amounts are not near as important as if you consciously make a choice. Just don’t build up credit card debt.
            The guidelines change once you are an attending. The 20% retirement is to get you to age 65 retirement with the same standard of living. Just math. Fixed amounts don’t matter. Number of dependents don’t matter nor age nor prime or I guess what might be considered subprime.
            Percentages matter and escalate for taxes and retirement as an attending.

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            • #21
              Mo' money, Mo' problems.

              ​​​​​

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              • #22
                You should feel fortunate , most of my friends , never made 500k a year and never will. You are making a significant amount of income in your first real year of work. I have made better than average income my whole life, I don't feel rich despite a good NW, I feel comfortable and content with no financial worries. Don't confuse spending like you are wealthy versus actually being wealthy.

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                • #23
                  By far the most stressful thing on that list IMO was the new baby who needed a “little surgery” that costed 20k.

                  Everything else on that list looked like no big deal.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by FreshPaint View Post

                    I think the salient number here is 3k per month spending, after rent, for 2 people and a baby. IMO that is depriving yourself when you make 500k. I spend close to 3k on just discretionary spending for myself, after paying 1k rent, in my last year of residency making 120k with moonlighting. I eat out all the time, travel all the time, go to concerts, etc. I'm actually living richer than you while making 1/4 of your income. Am I going to suffer some day because of that? I highly doubt it.

                    I know this forum really prioritizes saving for retirement, but do you really need to save 100k per year to meet your retirement goals? I don't think we would tell someone making 200k a year that they have to save 100k per year or be unable to retire.

                    Put another way, isn't it worth it to be able to spend 5k per month in the prime of your life, for the potential drawback of having to delay retirement for a couple years, or go part time instead of retiring early, or spend a little less in retirement?
                    100K savings is 20% of gross. If OP works a 30-35 years saving like that he can retire at about the same lifestyle. It is kind of the minimum recommended for a physician with a late start.

                    The argument of spending more while young and saving later is not very impressive because most people just don't save later. And as mentioned baby at home so not much to spend on anyway.

                    OP keep doing the right thing and be nice to future you!

                    I have come to realize you pay quite a bit to live in that kind of area so that alone is the value you are gaining with a good chunk of your money. You are always able to move to a cheaper area and live like a king! But it sounds like you have your priorities straight

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Turf Doc View Post

                      i'm only a med student so unfortunately no first-hand advice, but im probably going to end up where you are so interested in your thought process. As you know i feel like the 2x mortgage:income ratio is great but it seems like basically no one follows that in california and everyone does just fine. I mean imagine a doctor making 400k living in an 800k house (condo?) in california. It would be kind of bizarre.
                      We make around 700K (>800 on a good year) and we bought our house for 800K in a very HCOL area, just outside Manhattan (granted we bought it 8yrs ago). My neighbors are retired docs with a house similar to ours. I assure you, they're pretty wealthy ( bought separate lands for their children, shore house for the summer, ski cabin for the winter, etc!) It's not "bizarre' it's a choice. Years later, we're still grateful that we made that choice. Our biggest problem? Too much cash! But we're correcting that by dumping it in our taxable (which currently is a good timing).

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mdmulier View Post

                        We make around 700K (>800 on a good year) and we bought our house for 800K in a very HCOL area, just outside Manhattan (granted we bought it 8yrs ago). My neighbors are retired docs with a house similar to ours. I assure you, they're pretty wealthy ( bought separate lands for their children, shore house for the summer, ski cabin for the winter, etc!) It's not "bizarre' it's a choice. Years later, we're still grateful that we made that choice. Our biggest problem? Too much cash! But we're correcting that by dumping it in our taxable (which currently is a good timing).
                        How much is your house worth now?

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                        • #27
                          are you stuck in california? family?

                          https://forum.whitecoatinvestor.com/...e-in-one-chart

                          https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/ge...arbitrage-pof/

                          https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/is...e-a-good-idea/


                          Also, don't be in a rush to buy a house...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mdmulier View Post

                            We make around 700K (>800 on a good year) and we bought our house for 800K in a very HCOL area, just outside Manhattan (granted we bought it 8yrs ago). My neighbors are retired docs with a house similar to ours. I assure you, they're pretty wealthy ( bought separate lands for their children, shore house for the summer, ski cabin for the winter, etc!) It's not "bizarre' it's a choice. Years later, we're still grateful that we made that choice. Our biggest problem? Too much cash! But we're correcting that by dumping it in our taxable (which currently is a good timing).
                            How big is your house?

                            I think my point is better made with smaller numbers. Let’s say you make a decent income, 200 or so. Buy a 400k place in California? You could for sure and you’d be in a good place financially, but probably 99.9999% of people would not do that and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that they’d don’t have to do it

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Turf Doc View Post

                              How big is your house?
                              Big enough, beautifully landscaped, and finely furnished too.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Turf Doc View Post

                                How big is your house?

                                I think my point is better made with smaller numbers. Let’s say you make a decent income, 200 or so. Buy a 400k place in California? You could for sure and you’d be in a good place financially, but probably 99.9999% of people would not do that and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that they’d don’t have to do it
                                400k in Coastal California isn’t going to get you much. Are you saying the hypothetical physician making 200k should find something that costs a lot less or a lot more?

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