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  • #16







    I will be in the market for a new car likely sometime in the next year or so. My ’05 Corolla runs just fine, but we are trying for baby #2 and it will be impossible to fit two carseats in the Corolla without my knees being in the steering wheel. I’m looking at a minivan (gasp) which will likely be in the ~$40k range, and I plan to drive it for at least the next 10 years. Right now we have too much cash (e-fund plus another 30k making nothing in checking), and by the time we pull the trigger on the new car should have enough cash to pay for it up front. But that means I have cash sitting around for months doing nothing. What should I do?

    A: Keep cash where it is, save enough to pay for the new car in cash. Cash makes virtually nothing (but doesn’t lose value) in the meantime

    B: Invest cash and when it’s time to buy the new car sell investments and pay cash. Risk losing money invested

    C: Invest cash and when it’s time to buy the new car finance it, leaving investments alone

    I know WCI is not a proponent of car payments, but it feels weird to have such large sums of cash sitting in checking for months on end, especially while car loan interest rates are low. Thoughts?
    Click to expand…


    You lost me. You have $30K. You want a minivan. You have the money for it or soon will. But you’re thinking of financing it because you’re worried you’ll miss out on the difference between what the market gives you and what you can finance a car for over a 9 month period on $30K? Maybe if you quantify it then you’ll find the decision easier.

    Let’s say you make 5% in the market over 9 months but would only get 1% in the savings account. 4% of $30K = $1200. Not exactly life changing money.

    If $30-40K is such a huge chunk of your net worth that having it earn a low return is a big deal and such a large percentage of your income that it would take many months to save it up, maybe you need to rethink about whether you should be spending that much on a car, especially when a reliable minivan can be purchased so much cheaper. For example, a 5 year old Sienna in nice condition runs $12-13K. So you could invest $25K of your $30K now, leaving $5K in a car fund, add $1K a month to it over the next 9 months, and buy a used, but still very reliable Sienna.

    But it’s beyond me why a doc would want to make car payments. Most docs should be putting enough money toward building wealth that they could buy a $5K car every month without having to eat Ramen. Want a $10K car? Okay, save for two months. $15K? Three months. etc. Just stop your 401(k) contributions and additional student loan payments while saving up for a few months. Voila- you can now pay cash. Too painful to stop the 401(k) contributions? Then you’re probably buying too expensive of a car relative to your financial situation.

    Just some random late night thoughts. It’s your money and your life, do what you want. But I think my commitment to never have a car payment has paid rich dividends in my life.

     
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    Yeah, when you do the math I'm not missing out on THAT much in the grand scheme of things by keeping extra cash for up to a year or so. Student loans are gone, and we're already on track to hit over 20% in retirement savings this year (401k contributions auto-deducted with each paycheck- we miss out on some matching if max'd out early). $30-40k hurts somewhat, but less so when you consider I plan on driving it for 10+ years.

    I suppose I should look into buying used- but I'm hesitant to inherit a car's problems, plus I want the latest safety features for my kid(s).

    Comment


    • #17









       

       
      Click to expand…


       

      I suppose I should look into buying used- but I’m hesitant to inherit a car’s problems, plus I want the latest safety features for my kid(s).
      Click to expand...


      Recognize those two things are a luxury. That said, it's a luxury you can afford since you have the cash for it, so feel free to buy it, but recognize that the safety differences between a 2012 and a 2017 and the likelihood of them making a difference in your life is very, very low. And new cars have problems too. Getting a "clean slate" of problems is a pretty expensive luxury.
      Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

      Comment


      • #18




        Recognize those two things are a luxury. That said, it’s a luxury you can afford since you have the cash for it, so feel free to buy it, but recognize that the safety differences between a 2012 and a 2017 and the likelihood of them making a difference in your life is very, very low. And new cars have problems too. Getting a “clean slate” of problems is a pretty expensive luxury.
        Click to expand...


        This type of advice has been very helpful to me in the ongoing battle to resist lifestyle inflation. I have found many cases where I thought I needed to spend a certain amount on something and then realized it was a luxury once I evaluated it. I don't deny myself every luxury but I try to make sure the luxuries I indulge in are worth the cost.

        For many (but not all) consumer purchases the argument that the expensive option will last a long time and is worth the extra cost doesn't pass the math. I know I have used that argument when I really just wanted the more expensive product. Now reducing the chance of having the hassle of replacement or repairs as soon may a worth the cost but that is up to you.

        Comment


        • #19




          Its an annoying fixed bill thats unnecessary. And it will definitely be larger than if you paid cash.
          Click to expand...


          Agreed. The time and hassle of financing is worth something. Yikes.

          I mean, you'd save hours and hours if you just walked in, wrote a check, and drive home. Less time at the dealer (or buy online!! dealer.com, etc), less time at the DMV, less time setting up bill bay, less time checking the statements, less time throwing away the added junk mail you'd get, one less password to deal with, etc.

          Comment


          • #20
            Finance, brah!

            Assuming you spend the $40k, that's a little under $900/mo on a typical 48 month term.  Big deal.  No need to stretch yourself and spend all of your available cash.  And don't finance unless you get a good rate like 1.9%, .9%, 0%, etc.  If Honda or Toyota Financial doesn't have a good rate, check your local credit union.

            Again, I'm assuming you're an attending physician, possibly with a working spouse.  $900/mo or even a grand a mo for 48 mos is nothing.  If you don't like the hassle of dealing with the payments (I had to set mine to auto pay one time, such a hassle...  ), then you can just write the check and pay it off.  I was about to refi my wife's student loan, and I didn't want one of our car payments to affect our debt-to-income ratio, so I just wrote a check.  Easy peasy.  There's no prepayment penalty or fee, so you can change your mind anytime.

            If you're buying something and truly hoping to keep it for 10 years, do yourself a favor and only buy a Honda or a Toyota.  Any sort of Chrysler/Mopar/Fiat product would be my last choice when it comes to long-term reliability.  Awhile back Chrysler was offering lifetime warranties, which was nice, but you had to get used to a lifetime of bringing the car in for repairs all the time, and coincidentally not many of those cars are still on the road today.

            Also, shop and negotiate that purchase hard.  Real hard, like emailing 10+ dealers and having 2 or 3 compete with each other until you get the best price.  Be an ******************.  It's easy to be an ****************** over email since you're not at the dealership wasting anybody's time or being manipulated into a purchase.  You'll save at least an extra $500, $1,000 or more just by sending a bunch of emails over the course of a couple weeks, and there's all that investment return for the months of float while you waited to pay cash.

            As far as justifying the purchase, you're a big boy, you can afford to spend $40k.  If you manage to keep it for 10 years, that's just $4k/year, assuming you get nothing for it at the end, which is downright frugal when it comes to auto expenses for a doctor.  If you buy a Honda or Toyota, chances are the only maintenance you'll have to do is some oil changes, air filters and brake pads.  Don't keep suffering with 2 kids in a Corolla, and don't feel like you have to slum it by buying someone else's old van (gross).  And buying a 1 or 2 year old Honda or Toyota won't save you much, if any, over buying new, so just get the new vehicle you want.

            Comment


            • #21




              wci is a fan of your buying a much older car.  ????

              i’m a fan of c, especially if car loan rates are <1%.

              if not then a.

               
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              WCI is a fan of buying a brand new expensive car for his wife, and eventually taking that car for himself once he replaces it with another brand new expensive car for his wife.       :lol:

              Comment


              • #22












                 

                 
                Click to expand…


                 

                I suppose I should look into buying used- but I’m hesitant to inherit a car’s problems, plus I want the latest safety features for my kid(s).
                Click to expand…


                Recognize those two things are a luxury. That said, it’s a luxury you can afford since you have the cash for it, so feel free to buy it, but recognize that the safety differences between a 2012 and a 2017 and the likelihood of them making a difference in your life is very, very low. And new cars have problems too. Getting a “clean slate” of problems is a pretty expensive luxury.
                Click to expand...


                Actually, buying a new 2017 or 2018 offers a very large leap in auto safety over something just a few years old.  Honda Sensing and Toyota Safety Sense, which are brand new features, will actually scan the road ahead and hit the brakes for you if it senses an impact is imminent.  Lane departure warning, radar adaptive cruise control, collision mitigation are all pretty revolutionary features that will help you avoid having an accident in the first place. And that's in addition to brand new crash architecture in the latest gen 2018 Honda.  I think Toyota is still building an old generation model Sienna.

                And, chances are, if you bought a 2012 Honda or Toyota (and many other brands), you could be buying a car with a defective Takata airbag in the wheel or under the dash, which could potentially blow shrapnel into your chest and your passenger's bodies in the event of a collision.  This recall is still ongoing and will likely not be completed for years.

                So while a 5-year difference isn't usually a big deal, in this case, the safety differences by buying new are enormous.

                Comment


                • #23















                   

                   
                  Click to expand…


                   

                  I suppose I should look into buying used- but I’m hesitant to inherit a car’s problems, plus I want the latest safety features for my kid(s).
                  Click to expand…


                  Recognize those two things are a luxury. That said, it’s a luxury you can afford since you have the cash for it, so feel free to buy it, but recognize that the safety differences between a 2012 and a 2017 and the likelihood of them making a difference in your life is very, very low. And new cars have problems too. Getting a “clean slate” of problems is a pretty expensive luxury.
                  Click to expand…


                  Actually, buying a new 2017 or 2018 offers a very large leap in auto safety over something just a few years old.  Honda Sensing and Toyota Safety Sense, which are brand new features, will actually scan the road ahead and hit the brakes for you if it senses an impact is imminent.  Lane departure warning, radar adaptive cruise control, collision mitigation are all pretty revolutionary features that will help you avoid having an accident in the first place. And that’s in addition to brand new crash architecture in the latest gen 2018 Honda.  I think Toyota is still building an old generation model Sienna.

                  And, chances are, if you bought a 2012 Honda or Toyota (and many other brands), you could be buying a car with a defective Takata airbag in the wheel or under the dash, which could potentially blow shrapnel into your chest and your passenger’s bodies in the event of a collision.  This recall is still ongoing and will likely not be completed for years.

                  So while a 5-year difference isn’t usually a big deal, in this case, the safety differences by buying new are enormous.
                  Click to expand...


                  Good points about safety. I knew there have been advances in the safety features but didn't know specifics. Thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #24







                    wci is a fan of your buying a much older car.  ????

                    i’m a fan of c, especially if car loan rates are <1%.

                    if not then a.

                     
                    Click to expand…


                    WCI is a fan of buying a brand new expensive car for his wife, and eventually taking that car for himself once he replaces it with another brand new expensive car for his wife.    ????   ????
                    Click to expand...


                    Weird that Craigy would disagree with me about the value of buying brand new cars one cannot afford.

                    I'm a fan of buying cars you can afford, whether it is new or used. But I'm not afraid to drive an older car since I know that older cars are only a smidgeon less reliable than a brand new one (and am currently running a case control study in my garage.)

                    Totally disagree that there is a "large leap" in auto safety in the last 5 years. Craigy uses that to justify churning new cars. Shrapnel in the chest from airbags? Nope, haven't seen any of that in my daily work in a trauma center.

                    And a 5 year old car being "gross?" Give me a break. Get it detailed for crying out loud. At any rate, with three young kids it'll be way grosser a month after you buy it than the day you buy it.
                    Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Honda Odyssey was my mom car of choice.  Ended up with two over the years due to our three kids spaced so far apart.  Just traded the 2006 Odyssey last year for a Pilot Elite.  Awesome!  If you get a Honda, be sure to put a HondaCare warranty on it.  It covers you until 8 years/120K and gets everything including electronics covered.  Honda's don't need much, but with all the new gadgetry just one repair can pay for the warranty.  Our son just had to do a starter on his 2013 Accord.  No biggie, right?  Used to do that ourselves.  Now with all the coordinated electronics it ran almost $800. Cost nothing with the warranty.  Cheapest warranties are available online.  We used Hyannis Honda in Massachusetts.  We live in Alabama.  The HondaCare warranty can be placed on any Honda that is less than 3 years old or less than 36K miles if you decide to go the used route.  Good luck with your choice!

                      Comment


                      • #26










                        wci is a fan of your buying a much older car.  ????

                        i’m a fan of c, especially if car loan rates are <1%.

                        if not then a.

                         
                        Click to expand…


                        WCI is a fan of buying a brand new expensive car for his wife, and eventually taking that car for himself once he replaces it with another brand new expensive car for his wife.    ????   ????
                        Click to expand…


                        Weird that Craigy would disagree with me about the value of buying brand new cars one cannot afford. ????

                        I’m a fan of buying cars you can afford, whether it is new or used. But I’m not afraid to drive an older car since I know that older cars are only a smidgeon less reliable than a brand new one (and am currently running a case control study in my garage.)

                        Totally disagree that there is a “large leap” in auto safety in the last 5 years. Craigy uses that to justify churning new cars. Shrapnel in the chest from airbags? Nope, haven’t seen any of that in my daily work in a trauma center.

                        And a 5 year old car being “gross?” Give me a break. Get it detailed for crying out loud. At any rate, with three young kids it’ll be way grosser a month after you buy it than the day you buy it.
                        Click to expand...


                        Seriously google the Takata airbag recall.  Largest recall in history.  11 deaths and 180 injuries so far in the USA alone.  Manufactuers are having people park their cars and not ride in certain seats until they get fixed to prevent injuries.  Literally you could buy a 2012 used vehicle that comes with a letter from the manufacturer saying "don't put a person in the passenger seat until we get you a new airbag in 12-24 months."  It's ridiculous.

                        5 year old car?  I said 5 year old van.  Big difference.  A 5 year old minivan has seen its share of other people's kids piss and vomit, dirty diapers, food and drink spills, boogers and cheerios in between the seats, wet dogs and sweaty passengers, frazzled moms and dads driving, you name it.  No thanks.

                        I don't know about you, but my kid can puke and drool and crap on me all he wants.  But other kids?

                        Image result for eww meme

                        And OP hasn't yet indicated she's going to churn cars, she's said she wants to keep it at least a decade.  But if she decides to trade in her 5 year old minivan in 5 years for $20k and buy another $40k minivan, that's hardly a big financial hit or some sort of spendthrift lifestyle.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          We did finance our last car purchase, only because of a low rate.  If you can get a loan for <2% or something and will actually invest the cash it probably makes since.  We used lightstream.com which is actually an unsecured loan, and paid cash.  Of course theres the slippery slope argument..

                          Also agree that new cars are a luxury.  But a 1-2 year old car is unlikely to have major issues as well which is what we did with my spouse's car.

                          Comment


                          • #28













                            wci is a fan of your buying a much older car.  ????

                            i’m a fan of c, especially if car loan rates are <1%.

                            if not then a.

                             
                            Click to expand…


                            WCI is a fan of buying a brand new expensive car for his wife, and eventually taking that car for himself once he replaces it with another brand new expensive car for his wife.    ????   ????
                            Click to expand…


                            Weird that Craigy would disagree with me about the value of buying brand new cars one cannot afford. ????

                            I’m a fan of buying cars you can afford, whether it is new or used. But I’m not afraid to drive an older car since I know that older cars are only a smidgeon less reliable than a brand new one (and am currently running a case control study in my garage.)

                            Totally disagree that there is a “large leap” in auto safety in the last 5 years. Craigy uses that to justify churning new cars. Shrapnel in the chest from airbags? Nope, haven’t seen any of that in my daily work in a trauma center.

                            And a 5 year old car being “gross?” Give me a break. Get it detailed for crying out loud. At any rate, with three young kids it’ll be way grosser a month after you buy it than the day you buy it.
                            Click to expand…


                            Seriously google the Takata airbag recall.  Largest recall in history.  11 deaths and 180 injuries so far in the USA alone.  Manufactuers are having people park their cars and not ride in certain seats until they get fixed to prevent injuries.  Literally you could buy a 2012 used vehicle that comes with a letter from the manufacturer saying “don’t put a person in the passenger seat until we get you a new airbag in 12-24 months.”  It’s ridiculous.

                            5 year old car?  I said 5 year old van.  Big difference.  A 5 year old minivan has seen its share of other people’s kids piss and vomit, dirty diapers, food and drink spills, boogers and cheerios in between the seats, wet dogs and sweaty passengers, frazzled moms and dads driving, you name it.  No thanks.

                            I don’t know about you, but my kid can puke and drool and crap on me all he wants.  But other kids?

                            Image result for eww meme

                            And OP hasn’t yet indicated she’s going to churn cars, she’s said she wants to keep it at least a decade.  But if she decides to trade in her 5 year old minivan in 5 years for $20k and buy another $40k minivan, that’s hardly a big financial hit or some sort of spendthrift lifestyle.
                            Click to expand...


                            I guess if crap and drool and piss bothered me I wouldn't be in the line of work I'm in.
                            Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

                            Comment


                            • #29


                              I guess if crap and drool and piss bothered me I wouldn’t be in the line of work I’m in.
                              Click to expand...


                              I work exclusively in a peds ER, so I see even more gross kids than you.  I'm fairly sure my kids are more gross than the ones I take care of in the ER.  First thing I did when we bought our 2014 Odyssey (last year) was buy high quality aftermarket floor covers for the entire van and durable seat ,overs for any seat that will have a child. I even put a cover on the back of the driver seat because our 3 year old constantly kicks and scuffs it.

                              I bought the van expecting it to be lived in, like the house, not to be an impeccable shrine.

                              Also the 2014 Odyssey is nice -- we bought the Touring (the level above what we got has the central vacuum).  Adaptive cruise control and auto braking would've been really nice, but I've made it driven for 20 years without rear ending someone, so I am willing to take my chances.
                              An alt-brown look at medicine, money, faith, & family
                              www.RogueDadMD.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I look at cars and boats as consumable/disposable items, like a rope (~ 3 seasons) and a wetsuit (~ 2 seasons) and a backpack (~ 1 season) for canyoneering. I don't expect to get any significant sum of money out of them when I'm done with them. Doesn't mean I don't take care of them, but I'm certainly not anal about it because I know I don't have to impress anyone but myself with its condition because I'm basically never going to sell it.

                                I mean, there are some people who buy furniture and wrap them in plastic to keep them nice. We're not going to live forever and neither is our stuff.
                                Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

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